Cox P-40 engine boil

rsv1cox Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:07 pm

Five hours in the pot and I couldn't get the crank shaft to turn. What? A first for me. Turns out the prop machine screw was either the wrong size or stripped and wouldn't fully tighten down. (Pictured). Got a new one from parts. Still difficult and I don't force things. A little at a time, back in the pot for a minute and repeat until it finally broke loose. Same for the glow head. Tried to loosen it, but the cylinder released first. Hate that. Thin wall and I don't want to damage it especially with those P-40 markings.

First and second layers off, one more to go. Engine looks pretty standard to me except this one has two P 40 markings one under each exhaust port. Piston looks standard too. Two part.

Back in the pot to get the crank to release, took about four times.

OhBee Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:39 pm

Where's the crank? When you are all done and get sick of looking at that P-40...... Wink

....wink,wink!

Levent Suberk Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:53 pm

Crank is inside of crankcase, not removed yet Very Happy

rsv1cox Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:49 pm

Levent Suberk wrote:Crank is inside of crankcase, not removed yet

Yes, I still have to remove that crankshaft. I'm sure that it's lubrication ports are filled with castor goo. Also I have to remove the prop drive washer to take off that silly Cox starting spring. Normal procedure for me. Most of the time the spring just comes off, not this one. Sad

But is there something special about that spring on the P-40? Seems I have read something about that.

OhBee Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:16 pm

Ya...inverted engine inside cowling!

Marleysky Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:28 pm

Spring removal of a compressed spring over the prop driver:

CAUTION: use care when dealing with springs under tension.
Use of Proper personal protection equipment rules must be followed.
Signed waiver of liability must be on file before attempting any procedures
Not responsible for any physical damages or medical harm to persons pets or property.
Swim at your own risk.

NEW222 Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:47 pm

Thanks for teh tutorial. I am not sure exactly how I did it before, but yeah, slowly, one coil at a time over the prop driver. But at least I now have a picture to show me the proper way.

NEW222 Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:48 pm

And also, thanks Bob for the updates as you go along with this little project. Watching patiently...... So when is the next update???? Very Happy

rsv1cox Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:12 am

OhBee wrote:Ya...inverted engine inside cowling!

Maybe that's it. When I take it off I will make a comparison against all the others that I have removed. I'm a finger flipper, winding and releasing those springs have got me many more times than just flipping. Besides, they are just plain ugly.

Thanks for the picture instructions Rene, and the lawyer language. Smile

Tried to find my drive washer removal/install tools this morning Chancey to no joy. They are hiding somewhere. Been awhile since I have played with these things. Hope to pull the crank this morning and run it this afternoon. Don't know what I will do if that HC head is bad, guess lot's of heat and with a buffered tool remove it from the cylinder.

Rene, is yours marked P 40 under both exhaust ports?

Bob

getback Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:16 am

I knew there was some diff.

Product Engine .049 (0.8 cm³) Manufactured in 1975 (#350-1, ECJ #39f) This Super Bee engine was used in the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk and came with a cylinder having 2 transfer ports. It still used the classical cast metal back plate and not the later delrin plate. wrote:

Beeing the engine was more powerful !! Small Cox Logo

rsv1cox Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:22 am

getback wrote:I knew there was some diff. Beeing the engine was more powerful !!

Yes, this one has the two transfers with no boosters.

trebor3170 Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:58 am

Instead of heating the cylinder/glow head, try putting them in the freezer. The reason being, aluminum expands and contracts at a greater rate than steel, heating the assembly up would cause the glow head to expand more than the cylinder, actually making the fit tighter, Heating works on the cylinder to case joint because the cylinder screws into the case.

rsv1cox Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:05 pm

trebor3170 wrote:Instead of heating the cylinder/glow head, try putting them in the freezer. The reason being, aluminum expands and contracts at a greater rate than steel, heating the assembly up would cause the glow head to expand more than the cylinder, actually making the fit tighter, Heating works on the cylinder to case joint because the cylinder screws into the case.

Big step for me as I have always had good luck heating them. But I'm going to give it a try. 5 minutes at 0 degrees should do it.

OhBee Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:28 pm

Never had much luck finger flipping mine with that 3 blade prop! Had to use the spring starter...

rsv1cox Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:27 pm

OhBee wrote:Never had much luck finger flipping mine with that 3 blade prop! Had to use the spring starter...

Try doing two.

rsv1cox Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:52 pm

NEW222 wrote:And also, thanks Bob for the updates as you go along with this little project. Watching patiently...... So when is the next update????

I still can't find my crankshaft removal tools. Only three places that they could be. Not! Had to do it the old way.

Notice the castor filled oil galley at the 7 o clock position in the case. What happens when you don't clean these after a lot of use. Yes, it may loosen after running it again but during that period you are missing important crankshaft lubrication until it does. Build up too on the crankshaft, this after a five hour boil and Simple Green and alcohol rinses.

Even then, check out the amount of trash found in fresh alcohol.

Chucked up the crankshaft in the drill press and polished it a bit with light oil and fine steel wool.

Won't be able to run it today.

Dave P. Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:25 pm

When I find the head stuck like that what works for me is to heat the cylinder and put an icecube on the head. Give it about ten to twenty seconds and it'll come right off. The tricky part of course is holding the cylinder. I use a polished and buffered Cox wrench on the exhaust ports.

rsv1cox Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:13 pm

The head checks good, continuity wise. Don't know about when under a load but I'm optimistic. Going to put it back together and give it a check then I will try to carefully remove it. Cleaned everything up including that starter spring. Couldn't resist spinning the fuel tank on the drill press and polishing a little with fine steel wool.

Every time I look at that delicate little tapered case's nose it reminds me of the one I mushroomed years ago after a nose dive into concrete.

Piston is two piece and has no slop, might be the tightest connecting rod that I have come upon in a used engine.

NEW222 Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:47 pm

Awesome job there. Thanks for the updates. Sorry to hear you couldn't find your crankshaft removal tool. And also is probably the reason I do not have one either. Put it away in a good place, then when I would need it, it wouldn't be there! I also have to comment that you did a great job on that tiny starter spring. I have a couple that are oxidized good too, but have never attempted to try cleaning one, as I was not sure how to even begin to tackle that project. But apparently you do, and do it well!

rsv1cox Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:23 am

NEW222 wrote:Awesome job there. Thanks for the updates. Sorry to hear you couldn't find your crankshaft removal tool. And also is probably the reason I do not have one either. Put it away in a good place, then when I would need it, it wouldn't be there! I also have to comment that you did a great job on that tiny starter spring. I have a couple that are oxidized good too, but have never attempted to try cleaning one, as I was not sure how to even begin to tackle that project. But apparently you do, and do it well!

It's a dangerous enterprise Chancey and one I don't recommend.

Put a thumb or finger in each loop, (depends on position relative) stretch apart, apply to a spinning wire wheel, rotate holding lightly 360 degrees. Risks your fingers, thumbs and your eyesight. Clean up the inside with some steel wool. Spray with Remoil and wipe lightly with a paper towel. I have done many this way and still posses fingers, thumbs, and eyesight. But I am always conscious of the risk.

My garage grinder/buffer has a variable speed control that I usually use, much safer. But I did this one on the basement grinder that just lets it rip.

**Cribbs74** Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:25 pm

You could just slip it over an appropriate sized dowel rod instead of using your finger. Bob is just a man’s man.

Marleysky Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:37 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:You could just slip it over an appropriate sized dowel rod instead of using your finger. Bob is just a man’s man.

That was my thought exactly, a little Sacrificial wood to protect skin and bones! Maybe even a 5/8” dia bolt, metal to metal, let the sparks fly!! lol!

Ah, yes, Method #2 to remove starter spring: remove drive plate, remove spring.
No OSHA warnings for that one! Damn!

rsv1cox Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:40 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:You could just slip it over an appropriate sized dowel rod instead of using your finger. Bob is just a man’s man.

Nah, I'm just a wimp. Cried like a baby when I laid my finger on a hot soldering iron. And you thought three bladed props were dangerous.

Got it back together the old fashioned way too. Who needs stupid tools. Smile

Pictured with my latest obsession, Pittman motor (look it up) 1930's/40's Varney locomotive engines. Open armature, heavy duty magnet, lots of torque.

You hit send a trifle before me Rene.

Dowel won't work, you have to stretch and bend to get at the inner sides. Still, you would have to hold the darn thing somehow. Live on the edge. Smile

Does your P-40 engine have P40 under both exhaust ports???

Levent Suberk Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:34 pm

Sorry to hear what happened. I also know that well. Wish speedy recovery. Hobby isn't important than our health. We are getting older, so we need to be more careful.

balogh Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:40 pm

Levent Suberk wrote:Sorry to hear what happened. I also know that well. Wish speedy recovery. Hobby isn't important than our health. We are getting older, so we need to be more careful.

You only get older if you give up fiddling with COX engines, that we do not do... Very Happy

check my slogan under my post.

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