The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

rsv1cox Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:26 pm

Went at it with an - "It's either you or me attitude."

Wasn't easy. Three day soak of the back plate in Simple Green didn't loosen it. Heat gun, same thing. Butane torch w/sewing needle, burned fingers - ya!

The torch loosened the insert allowing me to remove it but the broken needle tip remained. More torch and pushed the tip against a hard surface pushing it back into the insert followed by a needle pushing it all the way out.

Thing is trashed, probably never to be used again. But Kim to the rescue with a replacement plate.

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Cox_ne13

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Cox_ne14

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Cox_ne15

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Cox_ne16

Someone had really screwed that needle in tight. I don't think that it was ever castor locked.

Bob

NEW222 Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:45 pm

Well, with persistance, you got it. I had never seen one apart before. I had a feeling that teh new plastic style backplates would have an insert, but I did not know that the metal ones did. I would have only thought that the metal backplates were threaded without an insert. I guess one could put the insert in and use a tiny bit of JB Weld to hold it in and reuse it. Unless there is something I do not see.

roddie Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:55 pm

Geez Robert... Shocked

I admire your tenacity, when it comes to dealing with broken/seized/frozen/rusted/corroded/melted/jammed/wrecked/stripped/galled/played/clapped-out/abused/severed/smashed/crashed/dilapidated items. (did I leave anything out?) Laughing

That said; you're an inspiration to me.. and I know that you know that! Thumbs Up

Marleysky Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:56 pm

Way to go Bob!
If there’s a will, there’s a way.
Sorry you had to ruin the backplate, but the experience was worth it.
Maybe you can save it, with some JB weld like New says.

crankbndr Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:05 pm

Your patience is admirable, I would have pounded it out with a ball-peen hammer a while ago.

roddie Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:31 pm

Is the casting no-good now? Those vintage Zamac/Mazac (?) castings are preferred over the olefin (plastic) ones which are being produced currently.

I've never removed the NVA (threaded-insert) from a "tank" backplate. I guess I'm fortunate; in that the one's I have, are all in decent condition.. with the exception of one which has a malformed fuel-nipple..

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! 5-25-112

The pot-metal backplates are also a much stronger radial engine-mounting than the newer (replacement) plastic ones. You can also utilize them as a "carburetor-only" back-plate... and forgo all the pesky leaks involved with the Bee-engines' 5-8cc tank-bowls.. and their associated sealing-problems.

KariFS Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:41 am

You're probably right Bob, that needle had most likely snapped already when going in and over-tightened. No way to get it out with the insert in place.

I have a couple of junk backplates, have to try and see how the insert comes off.

Thanks for sharing again another learning experience Thumbs Up

rsv1cox Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:21 am

roddie wrote:Geez Robert... I admire your tenacity, when it comes to dealing with broken/seized/frozen/rusted/corroded/melted/jammed/wrecked/stripped/galled/played/clapped-out/abused/severed/smashed/crashed/dilapidated items. (did I leave anything out?)

That said; you're an inspiration to me.. and I know that you know that!

Thanks roddie, I think you have about covered it. Smile

I gathered the parts together this morning and put them in a small plastic bag. Maybe I can save it, maybe not. It will be a learning experience.

Thanks to all for your support and comments.

Bob

getback Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:52 am

You got it out well kind of like all of it tongue

do you think the back plate warped from the heat ? May sit it against a true tank and see .

crankbndr Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:18 pm

This looks like a long needle

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cox-1-1875-Long-Needle-Valve-for-Gas-Powered-Engine-Vintage/362544590859?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Long_n10

rsv1cox Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:31 pm

Thanks CB, bought it.

Bob

crankbndr Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:51 pm

Like finding a needle in a haystack lol!

rsv1cox Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:53 pm

crankbndr wrote:Like finding a needle in a haystack

Yes, I really do appreciate you thinking about me on this. Makes another one of those W-196 cars complete.

Bob

ticomareado Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:52 pm

I have "eye-ball" noticed on some occasions when working on a batch of two or three Bees at a time that the NV inserts in some of the metal back plates seem to have been set at varying depths in the back plate. All the engines in the batch ran OK after a complete tear down and cleaning. Go figure.

rsv1cox Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:52 am

I cleaned up the back plate and re set the insert this morning.

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Back_p10

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Back_p12

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Back_p11

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Back_p13

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it! Back_p14

I cleaned the opening for the insert with wired pipe cleaners and the housing with metal cleaner then seated the insert with a vice then tapped it in flush with a tapping hammer. It bottoms out on the supporting ledge at the bottom keeping the hole in alignment with the orifice for the pickup tube.

Ran compressed air through it and air came out at all the proper places.

I think it will work, but I need to mount it on an engine to verify.

NEW222 Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:23 am

Good job. I was really wondering if it would be as easy as it appeared or was there something silly that we missed. Glad it appears to have worked out well. Will be waiting patiently for the test run.

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The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!

Re: The stuck broken Cox needle tip in the back plate - Got it!