Baby Clown (finished)

Looks great Ron.
No coffee left in the basket in the last photo.
'splains a lot.
Bob

Ron, the Baby Clown is a very good flying plane. Mine is the plastic mount and I wish I opted for the beam mount. Mine is extremely powerful with a Black Widow on it. It can get ahead of you quickly as it's moments allow it to turn quite fast. I feel the Cox Medallion would be an excellent choice if you have one. It wouldn't over power the plane and it would have very manageable power. I know many that have put Norvel's on these. If I was to do that, I would certainly opt for a Big Mig .049 and this much power isn't required for the plane. Ken

dckrsn wrote:Looks great Ron.
No coffee left in the basket in the last photo.
'splains a lot.
Bob

I've been working nights and the maid hasn't been able to get in the room to replenish my stock!

Ken Cook wrote: Ron, the Baby Clown is a very good flying plane. Mine is the plastic mount and I wish I opted for the beam mount. Mine is extremely powerful with a Black Widow on it. It can get ahead of you quickly as it's moments allow it to turn quite fast. I feel the Cox Medallion would be an excellent choice if you have one. It wouldn't over power the plane and it would have very manageable power. I know many that have put Norvel's on these. If I was to do that, I would certainly opt for a Big Mig .049 and this much power isn't required for the plane. Ken

I have plenty of engines, but not one medallion. I could use the TD although you are saying it's too much. How about the Fox .049?

cribbs74 wrote:

Ken Cook wrote: Ron, the Baby Clown is a very good flying plane. Mine is the plastic mount and I wish I opted for the beam mount. Mine is extremely powerful with a Black Widow on it. It can get ahead of you quickly as it's moments allow it to turn quite fast. I feel the Cox Medallion would be an excellent choice if you have one. It wouldn't over power the plane and it would have very manageable power. I know many that have put Norvel's on these. If I was to do that, I would certainly opt for a Big Mig .049 and this much power isn't required for the plane. Ken

I have plenty of engines, but not one medallion. I could use the TD although you are saying it's too much. How about the Fox .049?

i have several medallion .049's if you want to work out something or a loan?? hd

Ron, you can set up the plane to take several engines. The bolt patterns are all the same with the exception of the length of the case and the width of a Norvel is slightly wider (very marginal). Having a Norvel on hand would certainly be optimal. I've managed to set my Baby Flite Streak up to accept all of the engines. My concern with the TD is having reliable fuel draw. For this reason, I elect to use bladders on my TD's. That's also an option for you as Rusty has done. I have one TD that works on a tank so to speak. The tanks have the pickup way outboard and this becomes troublesome for a TD. Your experience may be different. Yes, it would work. I certainly would fly it on slightly longer lines. The engine could always be detuned. Many have successfully used the Medallion carb body and needle to improve the fuel draw. The Fox would work having good power. I would check the case width and bolt pattern. I use Dave Brown mounts for many of my beam mounted engines. I just remember having to really modify one for the Fox. I had to chamfer the mount and I think this was due to the case width. Ken

I consider my BRM (with 18" span) overpowered with a healthy TD .051 up front. It is so fast on 35 foot lines than my aging reaction time has difficult time doing aerobatic manuvers with any grace. I'm considering steping down to a less formidable engine of which I have several to chose.

As to beam-mounts I believe they make for a nicer looking model and, should you dig a divot with one, it is better able to survive unscathed to fly once again.

Ken Cook wrote:...My concern with the TD is having reliable fuel draw. For this reason, I elect to use bladders on my TD's. ... Many have successfully used the Medallion carb body and needle to improve the fuel draw... Ken

Years ago a fellow installed a piece of aluminum tubing inside a TD's venturi, smoothed things out, and redrilled the sprinkler holes for better fuel draw so he could run it on suction. It was published in Flying Models, but I don't remember the issue.

George

I believe Dave to be very correct in the power of the TD. I did suggest longer lines which would help. I also feel George is correct as well. The venturi is just too large for fuel draw. It does work, the tank has to have certain parameters however to allow for it. This would mean a tank that doesn't protrude more than 1/2" from the fuse it would need to be longer in length for more fuel as well. I truly believe the rear of the tank would have to be angled back to the corner as well. These are known as coffin tanks due to the appearance of a coffin. These style tanks in conjunction with centrifugal force keeps the pickup submerged in fuel constantly. The short comings of tanks is why most use bladder. Running a standard glow plug certainly can keep the performance at bay. The engines though are typically dead reliable. I certainly would try it. Ken

Ken Cook wrote: ...This would mean a tank that doesn't protrude more than 1/2" from the fuse it would need to be longer in length for more fuel as well. I truly believe the rear of the tank would have to be angled back to the corner as well. These are known as coffin tanks due to the appearance of a coffin. These style tanks in conjunction with centrifugal force keeps the pickup submerged in fuel constantly. The short comings of tanks is why most use bladder. Running a standard glow plug certainly can keep the performance at bay. The engines though are typically dead reliable. I certainly would try it. Ken

Ken,

I will have to plead ignorant of a "coffin" tank. I normally use a wedge tank with either standard venting (fill tube top to bottom, vent tube bottom to top) or better still a uniflow (vent tube runs back near fuel tube to maintain steady atmospheric pressure on fuel supply, fill tube capped). For larger engines I also have used a "chicken hopper" tank that has a small tank attached to a larger tank.

George

George, I'm sure my terminology is off. The tank I describe is such as the style the race guys use for speed. Narrow tanks, long, and tapers towards the rear. I discovered this a few years back as I was struggling for the correct "stunt" run with the Tee Dee. No matter what I tried, I ran into several fuel feed issues. I then switched to crankcase pressure and this proved to be so problematic I gave up on the TD. I had this happen using a TD on a Combat Kitten. I discovered, it wasn't at all the engine but the tank design. Here is a pic of the tank style I'm describing from the Flying Lines site. http://flyinglines.org/si.speed.html scroll down and you can see the tank. Although this tank is set up for speed use, this shape tank fits what I'm describing the best. In short, this tank if mounted on a profile would be protruding very little from the fuse placing the pickup for the most part inline with the fuel nipple on the TD.

When using a Perfect wedge, the pickup is now 3/4" or more outboard and the engine has to work that much harder to draw fuel. You did mention the "Chicken Hopper". This style tank would work although aside from making my own for 1/2A, I've never seen one available in under 2oz. The principle however of the hopper would certainly allow for good engine runs. These are directly my results and I know many people that have been successful using tanks I wouldn't even imagine trying. My suggestion to anyone is to try it first and then see what happens. Ken

Lot's of good info here. What to do........ I may have a line on a medallion. I guess the tank is goung to cause me issues as I was going to use a Perfect long 2/3oz tank. It won't stick out far, but probably more than Ken is talking about.

Forgot to ask, could a kind moderator post this in the models and modeling section? I should have started it over there my apologies.

Ron

Done.

Godsey3.0 wrote:Done.

https://i.imgur.com/pyN2e.jpg



Thanks Rolla!

It's all covered and ready for final assembly. Click on the top link for a better view of the picture.

Ron

Garnet and Black... that's a Gamecock plane! Yeah! Nice colors.

I've never covered a wing before installing it in the fuse. No problem if it'll go through the hole. What are you going to glue to, remove a strip to expose the wood?

cribbs74 wrote:Lot's of good info here. What to do........ I may have a line on a medallion. I guess the tank is goung to cause me issues as I was going to use a Perfect long 2/3oz tank. It won't stick out far, but probably more than Ken is talking about.

I like the party balloon tank for the Medallion. It ran great on my Bean. You suck out the air and fill it with as much or as little fuel as you want. If you want me to do a write up on how I make a balloon tank, let me know. The Medallion should be perfect for that plane. And if you need a boost, an SPI set or a Tee Dee piston/cylinder will really wake it up without making it more cranky. Or even an old style #1 BW set.

RknRusty wrote:Garnet and Black... that's a Gamecock plane! Yeah! Nice colors.

I've never covered a wing before installing it in the fuse. No problem if it'll go through the hole. What are you going to glue to, remove a strip to expose the wood?

Yep, just cut a strip and epoxy it in. I like to cover the whole wing, that way I don't have to worry about making seamless seams.

Ron,

I'd go with the TEE DEE
First off, get a uniflow tank and mount it level with the engine as close to the back of your beam mount as you can get it. Tame the engine with a lower pitched prop and some longer lines..... Maybe some 40 footers... You have seen clown racers right??? These planes really scoot with a .15 of any sort on them. Have fun with it.

Jim Hayes
AMA 988835

jhaye wrote:Ron,

I'd go with the TEE DEE
First off, get a uniflow tank and mount it level with the engine as close to the back of your beam mount as you can get it. Tame the engine with a lower pitched prop and some longer lines..... Maybe some 40 footers... You have seen clown racers right??? These planes really scoot with a .15 of any sort on them. Have fun with it.

Jim Hayes
AMA 988835

Thanks Jim, I was considering over propping it perhaps a 6x3 or something. 35' is about as much as I can get away with at my flying site though.

Ron

Hello Jim, although I do agree that uniflow may solve the solution, it doesn't always work. I know of no commercially available uniflow tanks for 1/2A available. I make all of my own from existing tanks. I found that for some reasoning, the wedge seriously dislikes the uniflow and I've proved this to myself over and over. In the event of fuel foaming, uniflow will not work period. Many of the tanks I set up for uniflow has the uniflow soldered 5/16"-3/8" from the rear of the pickup, and the uniflow pipe out into clean air on the inboard side of the fuse. Some of us aren't familiar with certain setups, I for one am very experienced with these tanks. When launched, I've had several TD's on uniflow go overlean no matter how rich you launched them. The other problem was the engine would quit upon release. This is a similar symptom I experienced having a venturi too large. I've necked down the uniflow pipe to 1/16" and the problem although would clear, fuel draw was always suffering.

I've seen this, but I've never tried it. I've seen a standard wedge mounted on the inboard side with the small portion of the wedge protruding through the doublers with the pickup exiting the outboard side. In other words, a hole was cut completely through the doublers centered between the motor mounts and the pickup side of the wedge is sticking out the outboard side approx 3/8". This now places the pickup inline with the TD fuel nipple. Seeing this can only be mounted by gluing it into the doublers, in my eyes this doesn't allow for an easy tank adjustment. The other factor is, I haven't come across one Perfect tank that has had the pickup tube soldered into place or even at the correct height in the tank. These factors right off the bat are 2 major problems to fuel draw issues within the flight. So to assume that the tank height is going to be correct visually isn't going to be the case unless you open the tank and inspect the pickup tube for the proper relationship to tank. I've seen these pipes not only at the incorrect height, but they're also short of the rear of the tank. Some engines are very forgiving to tank heights and designs, in my honest opinion, the TD isn't one of them. I would suggest to anyone to try what you have and go from there.

I sound like a broken record, but these are my findings and I would like solutions to making them work. I haven't tried the above mentioned placing the tank inboard with the pickup exiting outboard. My solution, which is entirely based on simplicity is to just run a bladder seeing that it works the best compared to any tank setup that I've used. Ken

Ron, Texas Timers is going on vacation starting tomorrow, but if you want to order a fine thread NVA, they have them for Tee Dees and Medallions, and orders today should be filled. If you do get one, either Ken, fit90-Bob, or I(as well as Andrew and others) can show you how to rig up a super simple pressure bladder for your plane. TT has the bladder end fittings too. I will send you plenty of bladder tube and some barbed syringe tips if you go this route.

RknRusty wrote:Ron, Texas Timers is going on vacation starting tomorrow, but if you want to order a fine thread NVA, they have them for Tee Dees and Medallions, and orders today should be filled. If you do get one, either Ken, fit90-Bob, or I(as well as Andrew and others) can show you how to rig up a super simple pressure bladder for your plane. TT has the bladder end fittings too. I will send you plenty of bladder tube and some barbed syringe tips if you go this route.

Ok, I already have a KK so I need to know how to do the bladder I suppose.