Cox P-51 Razorback engine, picture heavy and it ain't pretty

rsv1cox Sun Jul 09, 2023 7:22 pm

Not the worst engine I have done, but it's in the top five. Would not come apart despite Berrymans, Alcohol, MMO, and heat - gobs of heat. Burned fingers. Swearing!

Resorted to using a drilled Cox tool as heat was melting my nylon pull through prop. Took a nut and four lock washers on the prop screw to secure it from turning. I have misplaced (again) my disassembly tools, so I resorted to the old fashioned way of disassembly. Black goo inside the #2 cylinder, blue/green concrete inside the case that Berrymans did not touch. Took 91% and a tooth pick and patience. Inside the piston was a nightmare, more 91% and a tooth pick. I have had teeth removed that were less painful.

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What was left of the reed. I have never seen one eaten up like this.

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Tool marks on both glow head and cylinder.............Couldn't find the wrench they sent you in the box ya......... xx#@%%

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Tapping hammer, couldn't live without it.

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Nothing gets by without a pin through the NVA. Pushed a lot of goo out of there in the past. Heat on the needle to free it. I have left the tip of the needle broken off in these before neglecting to use heat.

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Going back together.

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Found a good original reed in parts. Cylinder and backplate are pretty nasty, but it has great compression pop that any Cox person would be proud of.

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Hey, it was a freebie............

roddie Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:01 pm

Nice work Robert!!! Clapping

Those are good engines... as you well know! Good of you to show it some love. Thumbs Up

rsv1cox Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:07 pm

roddie wrote:Nice work Robert!!! Those are good engines... as you well know! Good of you to show it some love.

Thanks roddie. Labor of love. Huh...

More love..........

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Kim Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:01 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80PTNnrwUO8

Very Happy

HalfaDave Mon Jul 10, 2023 2:26 pm

Hi rsv1cox,
Nice ! Smile

I enjoy your restoration projects here... Cool

I also find it funny, I can understand words like:
" blue/green concrete in the case that Berrymans would not touch." Laughing

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

rsv1cox Mon Jul 10, 2023 3:40 pm

I remember that song Kim. Any song/music. Hear it once and I have it. Most the the time just the first few notes is all I need. But, presently I can't remember where I left my keys or any higher math that I was ever taught. Oh well!

Old man speak Dave, when I can't think of a proper term I just use what comes to mind.

Wordless pictures sometimes explain best.

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getback Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:34 am

Good job on getting the gooey green frozen engine cleaned up , sure looked like alot of fun cleaning that one But with the compression you say it has she will rip through the sky now ,, and that is the worst reed i have ever seen too . Very Happy

rdw777 Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:40 pm

Nice job on the restore Bob!…. It’s going to look like it’s been out on several missions but back to base for refurbishment to continue those missions…. Just the right mix of old and new….. Gives them character Thumbs Up

GallopingGhostler Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:07 pm

Looking good, Bob, the old "B" turtle deck model will live again! Your photos jog a lot of fond memories of mine from the late 1960's in high school when I got it, the new but missing a few parts plane complete with engine, 3 blade prop and spinner. The red and white checkerboard wing walks also jogged my memory, too, mine had those.

Can't help but notice the front right portion of the fuselage with some form of chemical surface degredation causing the dull miscoloring.

Is that something that might require restoration by abrasive light surface removal by auto rubbing / polishing compound? Otherwise, the olive drab plastic color is so classic that paint would hide its beauty.

I still have the thin single bypass cylinder 190 red postage stamp engine, but now sports the Goldberg EB-1 nylon engine mount to the back.

rsv1cox Tue Jul 11, 2023 8:41 pm

Thanks George, severe case of raw fuel, hot fuel, and neglect I think.

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Howard Feed-N-Wax hides it well leaving like it's been out on several missions as Robert describes it. Alternative is to paint it aluminum/silver something that I do not want to do.

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Cut a new control rod and cemented in a new fuel tank nipple for it today. Had to re-scan the checkerboards onto white backed waterslide paper. Had it on clear which doesn't work at all. Hit it with gloss clear before I slide them on.

After completed I will wipe Howards wax on it all over giving it a uniform if somewhat interupted scheen.

GallopingGhostler Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:03 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Howard Feed-N-Wax hides it well leaving like it's been out on several missions as Robert describes it. Alternative is to paint it aluminum/silver something that I do not want to do.

[...] After completed I will wipe Howards wax on it all over giving it a uniform if somewhat interupted scheen.

Wow, that stuff does a really nice job without doing anything to alter the surface. Need to keep this info in my back pocket. Thumbs Up

rdw777 Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:07 am

That’s a home run Bob!…. I would not have thought that fuel bleaching could be alleviated so well… The Feed-N-Wax seems to rehydrate the plastic …..That’s a Cox plane restorer’s hot tip!….I think there will be just enough patina left to gracefully show its vintage-ness….

rsv1cox Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:38 pm

The aerosol straw fix for broken nipples works great. 5/64 blue tubing is the best fit.

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The Howards wax is not the be all end all but it is sooo much better than anything else I have tried in rerpairing fuel damage. Proceedure is, apply it without skimping. Let it sit 20 minutes and buff it up. Do it again. May take three times. Presently one coat on the entire plane, two coats on the cowling damage.

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Spinner is causing me grief. I can't remove the boss from the yellow one and I can't get the red one to snap on. Not ready to force it yet.

Wen Mac Lotus came in today. Will have to be disinfected before I bring it in the house. Smile

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I think it's mostly mud.

Kim Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:00 pm

WOW!!! Fantastic Job Robert!!!!

akjgardner Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:04 pm

rsv1cox wrote:The aerosol straw fix for broken nipples works great. 5/64 blue tubing is the best fit.

The Howards wax is not the be all end all but it is sooo much better than anything else I have tried in rerpairing fuel damage. Proceedure is, apply it without skimping. Let it sit 20 minutes and buff it up. Do it again. May take three times. Presently one coat on the entire plane, two coats on the cowling damage.

Spinner is causing me grief. I can't remove the boss from the yellow one and I can't get the red one to snap on. Not ready to force it yet.

Wen Mac Lotus came in today. Will have to be disinfected before I bring it in the house.

I think it's mostly mud.

WOW Bob , that came out really nice !!!!

rsv1cox Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:17 pm

Yeah but that spinner is bugging me. I think the problem is the hub. They come in two sizes - From Bernies site

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and I'm trying to use the larger one not meant for the three bladed prop.. I'm sure that I ordered both from Bernie but I can only find the larger one.

Trying everything to get the yellow one out, and.................you can't heat the darned thing without distorting the plastic. Oiled and pulled, no glory.

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Plane is starting to look really good, no heat mis-shapen parts. Buffed it up a little more. May make the display case yet.

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Neat, there are two grooves that guide the rubber bands as they come off the pegs.

getback Thu Jul 13, 2023 6:27 am

Fantastic !! It came out looking real good ! You got the technic down after a lot of trial and error and it shows Very Happy

rsv1cox Thu Jul 13, 2023 6:28 am

I finally figured this thing out. Solution simple. Came to me at breakfast this morning. Cox made different propeller attachments. This one, no studs, just a prop screw and the spinner just snaps on over the propeller.

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Did and done. Still can't get the stud out of the yellow spinner so the red spinner gets the nod.

Edit add: Thanks Eric. We were typing and posting at about the same time.

This picture shows the correct prop screw that goes inside the propeller.

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GallopingGhostler Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:53 am

rsv1cox wrote:I finally figured this thing out. Solution simple. Came to me at breakfast this morning. Cox made different propeller attachments. This one, no studs, just a prop screw and the spinner just snaps on over the propeller.

The spinner snapping into the propeller hub is how I remember my P-51B. The gap between spinner and fuselage cowl now looks correct.

The longer hub, wasn't that which Bernie was advertising had a bit of weight to it, similar to Harry Higley's heavy hub for Cox .049's? I had one of those, used it on my Sterling Minnie Mambo's R/C Bee engine. I think it was a half ounce in weight. Because I was using the Ace Pulse Commander rudder only flight pack, it only had two 240 mAH nickad button cells, not enough ballast in its short nose to correct the C.G. Using the heavy hub corrected the C.G. without adding excessive weight.

Later RTF aircraft, didn't they use the shorter special hub for the spinner and a solid hub prop? Both a Sportavia donor engine and Corsair donor engine given to me have this later hub arrangement.

rsv1cox Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:58 am

I had forgotten my Cox spinnerology..... Lot's of variations. Rubber compounds used the short or long stud depending on the spinner. "Snap-ons" for the studless spinner three blade props.

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GallopingGhostler Thu Jul 13, 2023 12:04 pm

Yes, I forgot that, the rubber spinner tips with hub nut, I used one with my .049 Thermal Hopper since I lacked the genuine special prop nut, it was a quick fix and for all tense and purposes, would work well for my intentions even if I don't ever get the historic special prop nut.

Personally, I think it is neat when I see an old motor on a model aeroplane that still shows its legacy even though it may have modern socket head screws for example. It is being put to good use with a little updating for practical use in flying.

rdw777 Fri Jul 14, 2023 1:48 pm

Red looks good on the nose Bob, Would have been what I would have voted for!…. Rebuild came out nice…. Ready to continue its missions!!

rsv1cox Fri Jul 14, 2023 5:12 pm

rdw777 wrote:Red looks good on the nose Bob, Would have been what I would have voted for!…. Rebuild came out nice…. Ready to continue its missions!!

Yes, I think the red is the best choice also, matches the red in the checkerboard. A whew moment for me.

I could not find my original scan in 1 to 1 but I did find a set that I had printed on clear backed decal paper. Dipped it in water and placed it on the planes wing. The olive drab just bled through. Quickly removed it and put it back on the paper, let it dry and copied both (they are each different) on white backed decal paper. Sprayed it with gloss clear and used that on the model. Gives a nice vivid red/white checkerboard that does not show up well in photos.

cano offers that set reproduction @ $18.00 on ebay.

Rig up a set of lines and it's definately flyable, just not by me. I only had to add a control rod in addition to the spinner.

GallopingGhostler Fri Jul 14, 2023 5:40 pm

rsv1cox wrote:I think the red is the best choice also, matches the red in the checkerboard. A whew moment for me.

Red spinner is the OEM color back in the late 1960's, was what mine hand.

rsv1cox Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:32 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:I think the red is the best choice also, matches the red in the checkerboard. A whew moment for me.
Red spinner is the OEM color back in the late 1960's, was what mine hand.

Red spinner on aluminum and a great depiction of the P-51.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjsrqMe0B3s

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Cox P-51 Razorback engine, picture heavy and it ain't pretty

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