K&B .09 Torpedo Engine

Interesting how K&B positioned the needle valve so your fingers would get burned by the hot exhaust.....

Even better is when mounted profile you burn your face off with hot spewing exhaust, it's awesome.

Nice engine George, Neat glow plug as well…. Have not seen one like that….Enjoy the restore   …..Have plans to put it on something?….

Thanks, Ken, for the bit of history on the glow plug, guess it was reliable, but others were better runners.

I have a Midwest 33" P-40 Warhawk profile stunt that would make a good plane for it, Robert. Regarding the needle, I believe it is missing the ratchet spring that goes over the needle cover shaft to keep it positioned. Yes, Jim, odd they positioned the needle adjuster on the same side as the exhaust, but the venturi spray bar a press fit, so no swapping sides.

Got an extra Tatone Calumet .09-.19 muffler that I can grind out all the internal baffles, so gets the Castor spray off the fingers. Some time ago I tried it with my Testor .19 Red Head, overheated quickly with very restrictive baffles in place.

I also have the Torpedo .35 which is completely smoked. I'm awaiting that day when I can find a donor piston cylinder. It's quite sad actually. I received the engine from a speed flyer with multiple engines. The grinding on the cases, the worn out piston liners and the disregard for care just baffles my mind. I have a Pet .09 in this box which looks brand new practically but it's wiped out. Now, this isn't a speed engine obviously, but it makes me wonder as to why someone would harm such a gem of a small engine.

I also wanted to make mention of this earlier in my posts. The K&B Torpedo as well as earlier version K&B engines used the taper drive washers. These are typically missing on most because without the nut, it quickly disappears. They're also not easy to come by. Take care of that and insure it doesn't find it's way with the rest of the missing ones.

Ken, yeah, similarly, I got a bastardized K&B .35 Torpedo where someone attempted to cut the piston skirt (somewhat sloppily done) to create SPI on this engine. Fortunately I have a new, unused OS Pet .099-III C/L engine in my stash.



Thanks for pointing out the tapered prop washer as it is a unique part of the engine. I am glad I have the original part. I made one for my OS .40FP R/C out of a small stack of 4 washers, 2 same diameter as the prop drive washer and another two slightly smaller, but of course, the OEM tapered one would have been nicer.


Improvised prop washer stack on an OS .40FP R/C mounted to a Sureflite .40 Cub ARF.

Send me a sketch and I will make you one

706jim wrote:Send me  a sketch and I will make you one

Appreciate the generous offer, Jim, but in this case I'll have to pass. Although I repaired the Cub, I don't have confidence that my substitution of 3/16" foam board for the tail surfaces will truly work, got some warping to relieve. Original was in sheet foam but was destroyed in a move. I'd probably be better off going to balsa.

So until the plane is ready to fly or I move the engine to another plane, for now, it is just a static display hanging from my garage roof.

You definately got a very nice original low time run engine there. Looks great!

Thanks, @NEW222. I temporarily mounted an electric prop just to see if I could turn it. Lo and behold, the engine has been lightly oiled with sewing machine or tool mineral oil. It does turn over freely, has the strong compression of a Medallion .09 with a high compression Tee Dee head. It makes a noticeable loud pop, so @Ken Cook is correct. When it runs, it will have a louder note similar to twin exhaust port engines.

The engine is clean enough that I do not have to disassemble it, just carefully wash the outside with some volatile solvent. Even the head, although some of the paint has been rubbed off from handling appears to have been  so lightly painted, that this is normal. One thing I do notice is that the mount holes are very small, appears that 2-56 mount bolts will work, even the 3-48's may be too large in diameter.

The needle valve has enough resistance that I think it can hold a setting, doesn't appear to need a ratchet spring. Now, I am really stoked.

K&B .09 Torpedo next to a Sportster .45 R/C and Testors McCoy .35 Blue Head R/C.

George, I like the blue head Mccoy. That's one engine I don't have. I was looking for my .35 Greenhead yesterday. I came across the .09 and one I forgot. I have a beautiful .29. Sadly, I acquired this engine from a deceased club member. The pictures don't do it justice as it's a very clean nice example which runs terrific. I think Pete the fellow who originally owned this would be proud to know it's in good hands. Pete was a avid freeflighter usually older traditional models. My .09 however as I mentioned prior isn't a pretty example, it just runs well and I have a thing for these smaller engines.

Interesting about the mounting holes being that small. I would have thought they would have at least been a 4-40 thread. I never would have thought.

@Ken Cook, that K&B .29 Torpedo is a beaut, congrats on scoring it.

It is interesting that my .09 has the factory spray bar mounted with needle on the exhaust side, yet yours and the one in Sceptre Flight's Aug. 1958 Model Aircraft review have the needle on the other side. I gather that with the Champion glow plug, mine must be an earlier production version. Also, it seems my suspicions are correct, the engine article shows engine tore down, there is no retention spring for the needle; with threaded collar, it is a friction fit, ingenious. Another interesting fact is the slightly more powerful Fox .15X is almost an ounce heavier than this Torpedo (3.6 vs. 2.8 oz.). It is almost the same weight as the unmuffled, unthrottled Medallion .09 (2.75 oz.).

Also of interest is that this engine (swept volume 0.0999 cu. in.) is a little powerhouse of its own right on 12% nitro, when compared with the later OS Pet .099 engine (swept volume 0.0981 cu. in.) on 15% nitro. Although the OS is tested with muffling in place, performance curves are similar, not bad for an engine that was in production 15 years earlier. It is also lighter at 2.8 oz. whereas the Pet is 3.25 oz. The comparable 1958 OS Pet .099 steel fin of similar weight was definitely weaker on power even on 25% nitro.


Torpedo .09 engine performance curve (12% nitro), author not identified (although appears that Peter Chinn may have written it) in Aug. 1958 Model Aircraft.


OS Pet .099 engine performance curve (15% nitro) by Peter Chinn in Apr. 1972 Aeromodeller.


OS Pet .099 steel fin engine performance curve (25% nitro) by H.R. Warring in Aug. 1958 Aeromodeller.

Yes, the screw mount holes are tiny, @NEW222. Here, I am comparing it to my Medallion .09 R/C. The engine mount holes are noticeably smaller than the Medallion's:

The K&B Gr@eenhead .09 is a great engine.   There. We're actually two versions.

The early version had a problem with the exhaust port sagging so they added a web in the exhaust port to eliminate sagging.

All three of my K&B 09's have the needle opposite of the exhaust port.

K&B also made ring mounts for the Greenheads.



The K&B Greenhead .09 and McCoy .09 diesel were my favorite.09 engines back in the 1950's.

The K&B Greenhead .09 is a great engine.   There. We're actually two versions.

The early version had a problem with the exhaust port sagging so they added a web in the exhaust port to eliminate sagging.

All three of my K&B 09's have the needle opposite of the exhaust port.

K&B also made ring mounts for the Greenheads.



The K&B Greenhead .09 and McCoy .09 diesel were my favorite.09 engines back in the 1950's.

Interesting little facts on your .09 Green Heads, @Dan Vincent. Then my Green Head with the needle valve mounted on the exhaust side and with open exhaust without support web may mean it possibly to be of earliest manufacture. Receiving it with the Champion porcelain head glow plug sort of confirms that. Being pressed in versus a nut tightened spray bar, has no signs that a previous owner moved it over.

When I use it in a future plane, then I can relive the early experiences of adjusting the engine including pain!

Hot exhaust blasting a bare hand while adjusting the needle is no fun. With it on the other side, one could mount the engine with exhaust down on the left side, then access the needle without burns.

My fav. .09 was the Enya it was the only one I had LOL I don't think I have a McCoy or K&B .09 if so I havent ran it for sure .. Bout time to run something !!!

K&b torpedo I already had one but it broke easily after a crash the engine casing broke right where the cylinder inserted in the casting stop Just in front of the air inlet below the exhaust outlet It's a shame because the engine was like new is still very good. Compression think I still have a torpedo somewhere Among the different k&b that I have in my collection

Ken Cook

K&B .29 & .32 info.....

I was talking to John Brodbeck and I was curious as to why he took so long to make his Greenhead .29 & .35 engines with 4-screw backplate models like the .09, .15, .19, .23 & .45 engines.

John said they made the 3-screw cases because of the backplate.

Their previous Torpedo .29 had a tank that mounted with a single screw and many users applied too much pressure which resulted in pulling the stud out of the backplate.

John said he had thousands of the 3-screw backplates and simply had to use them up before updating to the 4-screw .29 & .35 cases.

I had K&B .29 &.32 Greenheads and found them totally reliable and preferred them over my Fox 35 engines.

I like the greenheads, I'm not crazy about the two screw cylinder retention. I'm also not a fan of the wrist pins as they do wear grooves in the cylinder as well. I always polish and round them real well. If memory serves me , the .35 uses aluminum end pads on the wrist pin. I have a rear rotor .29 which I haven't posted a picture of. I have owned it for quite some time and never ran it. These tend to be rare. I'm a K&B fan especially of the newer 4011 series as they're just a simple design with plenty of power.

Hi Ken Cook and GallopingGhostler,

You both have made contributions to my Cox 020 Pee Wee Rebuild thread so I thought I would have you both a question since you are way more knowledgeable about these glow engines. I just messed around with the Cox 049s as a kid. The same friend who gave me this first Cox 020 Pee Wee just dropped a strange looking engine on me. I identified it as a K&B 049 Torpedo. Does anybody run these engines today? Before I started posting on this forum, I'd never heard of a Holland Hornet and now a K&B Torpedo! Maybe I'll start a separate thread here for if I decide to restore it after I'm done with the Cox 020.

But my question is, is there a modern-day glow plug that will work with this motor? I found an exploded view of the motor with all its parts. It states the glow plug has 1/4-32-inch threads. I don't know much about glow plugs except what I've just read: cooler plugs for hotter fuel, and hotter plugs for smaller engines. The fuel I obtained for the little Cox 020 was SIG High Performance fuel 25% nitro and I'm using two glow head gaskets with that. 

Thanks in advance,
Dave

Dave, The K&B Torpedo is a special engine.Introduced in the mid 50's these were the first K&B engines made and essentially were handmade in small quantities. There was a explosion of small engines produced in this time frame. The K&B Torpedo engines were also machined bar stock cases which in itself offers a high level of quality and process to produce it.They were at them time of offering fairly powerful engines aside from the .020 infant. The Torpedo .049 is the only one of the series that use a 1/4"-32 plug. This engine will benefit from using high nitro fuel. High nitro is quite common in small engines due to there inability to retain heat. A medium range plug would suffice here but I wouldn't hesitate to use milder fuels and a hot plug. Essentially, trial is required. My friend Dan currently uses one of these in a free flight model. The backplate of this engine interchanges with the other offerings from K&B so one could've used the same plane in different classes using one engine bolt pattern.

If your Torpedo is in good shape, you will be quite happy with it's performance, they're not so common today and most that own them were older free flight guys.

Thanks Ken for the advice on the glow plug. I’ve got one picked out on the Tower Hobby website that looks like it would work. Once I get done with the PeeWee, I’ll start a new thread here for my efforts on the Torpedo!

Cheers,
Dave