Re: Guillow's Typhoon 900 series

balogh Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:22 am

My default hinge solution is a small piece of glass reinforced fabric hinge soaked in CA glue after tucked into the stab and elevator halves, then pulling a transparent self-adhesive
scotch tape over the full gap length - on both sides - between the mating parts for added security as well as for preventing unwanted cross-streams and vortices near the gaps. (I hope it is visible on my well used Toucan RC elevator)

The scotch tape is added with the elevator in fully thrown position to prevent excessive servo load on an elevator due to an over-spanned scotch tape

Guillow s Typhoon 900 series - Guillow's Typhoon 900 series - Page 2 Hinge10

rsv1cox Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:22 am

I may be a tad jealous here because I'm not talented enough to do stitched hinges with my short stubby fingers. Mom could have done wonders though, besides being a great cook she was also a seamstress making many of my clothes when I was a kid.

I would like to put a strain gage on each type though, many Dubro hinges will fall from gravity when held horizontal. Line them up in a row though clumsily installed at different angles and there might be a problem.

Bob

KariFS Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:44 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Kari, the difference when I do them is, I don't double back through the holes to give a nice zig-zag appearance. Then it acts almost totally frictionless (within limits).

Yes, mine was pretty loose too before I did the double back, maybe I did the other round tighter than the first. I do like the way it looks, next time I just need to make it less tight. It doesn’t fall down by gravity, but then again, it is a small piece of light balsa, not much weight anyway. It seems to work fine when pulling the lead-outs, but unfortunately this one is still waiting for its maiden flight, so the actual functionality is yet to be seen.

I suppose modern R/C is less sensitive to stiff hinges, since even the smallest servos have plenty of torque. But many C/L instructions emphasize the importance of freely moving elevator and flaps.

**944_Jim** Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:03 pm

Guys,
I'm concerned, yet intrigued by the "tape" hinges. I doubt their ability to hold under splashed nitro fuel and residual burned fuel and exhaust. This comes directly from my childhood years when Cox planes came with stickers that slid off or got stained/damaged by same processes.
Yet on here, RCG, and even SH, I read reports of Blenderm, vinyl tapes, etc maintaining a hinge line on a wet-fuel plane.

What am I missing? Is this a case of "re-tape each season," or is new tape sufficiently fuel-proof? I won't use it on the Typhoon (because I do like a floppy, stitched hinge), but could consider it on other, bigger models.

Oh, I also used mylar floppy disk material CAd in on a plane that crashed repeatedly. While it was difficult to ensure all four "hinge slots" were in the same plane (cute pun, but as in geometry), the resultant strength of the hinge line outlived the trainer's well-used airframe. I came close to doing those on this Typhoon until I remembered a fellow describing BBQ-skewered tail planes (there I go again). His pictures show several smaller, yet very neat over/under stitches along the skewer line that blended in so well it took effort to know what I was looking at. I want to replicate his efforts on this one.

OhBee Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:58 pm

I just use the old over/under cloth hinges like I always used in the past. Works fine for me,and I never had a failure even though I destroyed all the planes! Hate the looks of those stitched hinges!

GallopingGhostler Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:04 pm

944_Jim wrote:Guys,
I'm concerned, yet intrigued by the "tape" hinges. I doubt their ability to hold under splashed nitro fuel and residual burned fuel and exhaust. This comes directly from my childhood years when Cox planes came with stickers that slid off or got stained/damaged by same processes. Yet on here, RCG, and even SH, I read reports of Blenderm, vinyl tapes, etc maintaining a hinge line on a wet-fuel plane.

What am I missing? Is this a case of "re-tape each season," or is new tape sufficiently fuel-proof?

Jim, back in the old days when the exterior surfaces were doped, it filled the cloth tape weave making it fuel proof. The over and under method with short tape strips with sufficient length fore and after with one above, one below then switch to the moveable surface below and above for gluing stayed glued and protected from engine's Castor laced exhaust splatter.

OhBee, I agree, they work very well. Nowadays one does the same with the paints of now, then it will maintain a reasonable fuel proof hinge.

Speaking of Cox RTF's, yes, I remember some of those so called inexpensive gloss paper decals that would go south shortly after becoming fuel soaked. And, the paints for plastics of the time that did not tolerate nitro laced fuel well. I bought a RTF P-51A or B turtle deck with new missing fuselage aft belly cover and elevator without box for $0.50 at Gemco (Walmart forerunner) outdoor tent clearance sale in Hawaii 1970. I replaced the missing elevator with a balsa one using cloth hinges, filled in the missing rear belly pan with side and bottom 3/32" sheet balsa. Hinges worked really well.

roddie Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:37 pm

I guess I missed this thread.. (since last Summer.. Embarassed

) coool

build! Is that LJB wing to spec.? If not; what's the span and area?

Have you settled on that more-fwd. L/G mount..? If not.. and if your wings' still open to mods, I have some really interesting stock that could significantly STIFFEN the leading-edge wing-root area enough to install independent gear-blocks. Might just help to further-offset the oversize engine weight penalty. I sent some of this material to Chancey. It's basically strips of 5/16" tri-angular baltic-birch plywood saw-cuts from where I work. There are 4 solid plys of cross-grained birch in these strips. The lengths are 24".. but all you'd need is enough to span the gear-block locations (5-7 inches?) I have your addy.. I'll mail you some.. just in case. It's so rigid; I could prolly just wrap an address label around it.. without any other packing.

**944_Jim** Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:37 pm

Gentlemen,
I was referring to tape, as in scotch tape. Like what Balogh shows above. This is also a running topic on SH right now as one of those guys is trying to work through adhesive tapes over hinges of various types.

I am also familiar with over-under pinking tape, like the old Perfect-line of model airplane products. Exactly what shipped in my Stuntman 23 and Lil Satan of decades gone by. You know a package of that is going for about $7 on eBay? YIKES!

Roddie,
It is a Lil Jumping Bean wing at 100% scale...all 21" of it. The wing is still open top and bottom. I goofed around napping on the couch after work tonight (Booooo, Jim!) instead of closing it up, or placing stringers/longerons on the fuselage top. This one isn't as well planned as it appears, and has been basically built on the fly with limited forthought. I did route a slot inside the leading edge for the bellcrank platform. It wasn't until I had ribs in that I realized I could have incorporated a leading edge stiffener in the same piece as the BC platform. Said stiffener would have also been great for lacing in a landing gear wire. I do appreciate your offer, but am strongly leaning toward a firewall mounted landing gear solution that would look am awful lot like the Scientific P-40 gear. I am also considering doing no landing gear, and either building a carpet/stool stooge, or employing a mammal-based stooge (my wife).
I don't know where the CG will land, but anything strong enough for landing gear will be in front of the CG anyway...especially if I wing-mount it. If I do LG, then rest assured a pair of very special Wonderful Wooden Roddie Wheels will be under her (the plane...not my wife).
Part of the reason for this build was to proof the wing jig concept for my Frog Mosquito build.
I will use the product engine since I think the P-40 was grossly overweight. Yeah, it looked like an old plastic Zinger model with that huge AP on the nose and flew fast and hard, but it sucked at coming out of inverted into horizontal/upright. Wingovers were fine, but I think it was only because the plane transitioned a 90 degree turn, yet couldn't pull off the 180 degree turn.
Oh, and I just discovered another hand-made tank on my horizon. Now that I have the 3/16" front bulkhead in place, I can't slip the 3/8 oz tank in between the fuselage rails-Doh!

Here are a few more shots with detail:

Guillow s Typhoon 900 series - Guillow's Typhoon 900 series - Page 2 Img_2023

Guillow s Typhoon 900 series - Guillow's Typhoon 900 series - Page 2 Img_2024

smooth_bill Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:23 pm

I use those pinned hinges as a drill guide to drill neat even holes for my sewn hinges. Keep one pinned hinge of each size and your covered. Looks much neater than the criss/cross pattern in my opinion.

I fill each hinge hole with a drop (actually less) of carpenter's glue to hold the loose ends. Most people use CA, but that can make a mess if it runs out the bottom side of the hole. I never use CA type hinges as they are way too stiff for 1/2-A airplanes.

Bill

roddie Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:16 pm

944_Jim wrote:
Roddie,
It is a Lil Jumping Bean wing at 100% scale...all 21" of it. The wing is still open top and bottom. I goofed around napping on the couch after work tonight (Booooo, Jim!) instead of closing it up, or placing stringers/longerons on the fuselage top. This one isn't as well planned as it appears, and has been basically built on the fly with limited forthought. I did route a slot inside the leading edge for the bellcrank platform. It wasn't until I had ribs in that I realized I could have incorporated a leading edge stiffener in the same piece as the BC platform. Said stiffener would have also been great for lacing in a landing gear wire. I do appreciate your offer, but am strongly leaning toward a firewall mounted landing gear solution that would look am awful lot like the Scientific P-40 gear. I am also considering doing no landing gear, and either building a carpet/stool stooge, or employing a mammal-based stooge (my wife).
I don't know where the CG will land, but anything strong enough for landing gear will be in front of the CG anyway...especially if I wing-mount it. If I do LG, then rest assured a pair of very special Wonderful Wooden Roddie Wheels will be under her (the plane...not my wife).
Part of the reason for this build was to proof the wing jig concept for my Frog Mosquito build.
I will use the product engine since I think the P-40 was grossly overweight. Yeah, it looked like an old plastic Zinger model with that huge AP on the nose and flew fast and hard, but it sucked at coming out of inverted into horizontal/upright. Wingovers were fine, but I think it was only because the plane transitioned a 90 degree turn, yet couldn't pull off the 180 degree turn.
Oh, and I just discovered another hand-made tank on my horizon. Now that I have the 3/16" front bulkhead in place, I can't slip the 3/8 oz tank in between the fuselage rails-Doh!

Hi Jim, Don't beat yourself up too much. I envy your getting back to this build. Would you like to finish some of my builds? Laughing

So.. have you done more thinking on the fuel tank? Is your heart set on a hard-(vented)-tank? You may have the real-estate in that built-up fuse to install a capsule for a party-balloon type tank. Andras (balogh) uses them exclusively in his highly-maneuverable 1/2A RC airplanes.

You could do a straight-shot; your Sure-Start/horseshoe-style carb's fuel-barb on the bottom and straight back into what could be a belly-capsule.. (A BELLY-TANK.. Damn!

) for the balloon. Even without LG... the capsule can protect the enclosed balloon. You wouldn't be flying gearless over pavement/hard-packed soil.. but more likely a grass field. A plastic test-tube for a capsule-example. The balloon can be found in the long-thin type. Look for party balloons in the "assorted shapes" packages.

Guillow s Typhoon 900 series - Guillow's Typhoon 900 series - Page 2 Dsc02911

Guillow s Typhoon 900 series - Guillow's Typhoon 900 series - Page 2 Balloo10

Get some "tee-fittings" for evacuation/fueling. It might solve your fuel-tank issue.

Maybe fashion some simple music-wire (.015") "hooks" on the bottom of the fuse and wing, for a rubber-band mount for the capsule. No major surgery.. Dr. Matos.. and the convenience of up-to 10+ cc fuel load. Probably a good solid 3 minutes at full-bore.. mams-out screamin' Cox fury!

**944_Jim** Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:50 pm

Roddie,
Guffaw, guffaw! My first cousin IS Dr. Matos...I'm not even close.

You did stir up a good idea. I've never been a fan of "gas bags," and am still considering options. I did NOT consider a soft tank, yet it may actually work! I can put a floor in the empty bay keeping the center of the fuel cell level behind the NVA.

I'm near the end of three builds...this one, the Scientific Red Tiger, and the Brown-Novotnik Mosquito (little yellow cutie with twin PeeWees). All of them roughly two years old, yet still unfinished. Are you SURE you want to invite me to finish yours? We need to compare long running builds...I bet we are running neck and neck! Maybe not in numbers, but probably in longest builds. How is the blue XF-11 looking model going? ISTR wheels on it a while back (Jim chuckles).

Thanks much for pushing me to sleep explore other fuel storage solutions!

roddie Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:14 pm

944_Jim wrote:Roddie, I'm near the end of three builds...this one, the Scientific Red Tiger, and the Brown-Novotnik Mosquito (little yellow cutie with twin PeeWees). All of them roughly two years old, yet still unfinished. Are you SURE you want to invite me to finish yours? We need to compare long running builds...I bet we are running neck and neck! Maybe not in numbers, but probably in longest builds. How is the blue XF-11 looking model going? ISTR wheels on it a while back (Jim chuckles).

Thanks much for pushing me to sleep explore other fuel storage solutions!

My pleasure Jim, I probably should restrain myself from offering alternate methods to solve an issue with someone else's deal.. ya know?. I just can't help it.

I'll tell ya' though........ I enjoy the comradeship with you.. and so many other members here.

Yea.. our builds/works-in-progress.. Laughing

I know that I have you beat in terms of the shear number of them.. as well as the time-spans, since work was done on some of them. Now I'm thinking about every one of them! Laughing

**944_Jim** Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:01 pm

Umm, Roddie,
That last line should have been "Thanks much for pushing me to still explore other fuel storage solutions," and not at all implying you put me to sleep with your ideas. Embarassed

Please forgive me, well, my NON-autocorrecting phone.

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