An enexpected but stupid burn!

Hot Stuff from the 70's would set the wood on fire. Ken

Cribbs74 wrote:Yep,

It sure does! Once it starts to kick it burns like crazy. I have done it many times. Never had a blister though. You must have held it there for a good long time.

Between 10 and 15 seconds. The time it took me to realise how hot it was getting and reach the tap. I have known mixing certain chemicals get hot - some common household ones (well common to me!) - sodium hydroxide when mixing with water (always add to water not the other way around!) - the list is almost endless but usually involves "mixing" not just a glue going off!

Ken Cook wrote:    Hot Stuff from the 70's would set the wood on fire. Ken

I always wondered cyano is referred to as "Hot Stuff". Now I know!

To do this, and it was getting hotter the temperature went over 100 deg C. The paper towel, where I soaked it with water, was warm as the cyano heated the water.

You live and learn! Health and saftey has never been my strong point.

When I spread CA.. I cut small squares of wax paper. It keeps the CA off your skin, and also smooths/pushes the adhesive into the joint. I use wax paper whenever I work with adhesives. It's "handy" to just tear-off from the roll. It protects your work surface, it's semi-transparent for building over a plan.. and the glues don't stick to it. It works great for butt-jointing balsa sheet on a smooth level surface.

Sorry about your finger.. I hope you feel better soon.

Ian: Along with Roddies idea of using wax paper I recommend using rubber gloves. I purchased a box of 500 "surgical gloves" for less than $5.00. That was a couple of years ago. I use them every time I glue or use fuel around engines. It saves a lot of oily and burned fingers.   

happydad

    

I have noticed that paper towels seem to heat more than other materials when soaked with CA. I don't know if it is due to the residual chemicals in the towels or the wood pulp used to make them.

A small corner of a paper towel makes a great patch with CA if you have to seal a nick on the back of your hand where a bandaid isn't convenient. Sometimes I only use one ply of it.
Rusty

Given the high cost of CA and its quirkiness, I've been building with water based aliphatic carpenters glue (Titebond, Bordens, etc.) and white glue. They form strong bonds, do what I want, making CA unnecessary.

I use many different glues for many different reasons.

My favourite is still "Humbrol Balsa Cement" because I like the smell. Although I don't actively "sniff it" - like dope and cellulose thinners - I don't avoid them. As a child - when my mother was asked where I was - She would reply "He is easy to find - He will either be making a smell, a mess or a noise - more often than not - all three at the same time!"

Then the only choice of glues were Croid Aero glue and balsa cement. Balsa cement was expensive but Aero Glue was supplied in a tin which had to placed in boiling water and heated for use. It was a casein like product manufactured from hide and animal bones. A snot like consistency, brown and goopy but used where you would probably use epoxy today. Brush on leave the brush in the tin as it cooled - reheat, when you could take the brush out - it was almost ready.

Imagine your mother reaction when she realises an eight year old is boiling a pan of water on the stove and producing a really evil smell!



Anyway, today I predominantly use Aliphatic resins. Delux Materials Aliphatic and "Super Phatic" (penetrating aliphatic).



I don't discount CA glue because in some circumstance I want a fast set or I use it in spots to temporarily tack something rather than use pins.

I use it the most to quickly harden balsa when sanding. Balsa is generally soft when compared to other woods and if you are trying to feather edges it is difficult to blend balsa with a harder material without creating a trough in the balsa. So I apply thin CA to harden it. Makes belending easier.

Similarly, sanding a fine edge on balsa creates a delicate edge. I use CA to toughen this up too.

I use most glues at some time or other. Sometimes though I find the general wood working PVAs to slow to set, too heavy and difficult to sand - but cheap! Then again, this all depends on the brand.

Everyone ends up with a favourite selection. I prefer to remain "experimental" - I even use the melting stick glue sometimes applied from a heat gun.

There are very few glues I haven't used - one is ambroid - not available here.

I use CA thin almost exclusively. Being anal retentive, I cut fat and sand to fit, so the joints are tight (best for CA). I also use only spaghetti tubing for a tip -- being extremely small, I can wick the CA to the joints without any over coverage or loss of adhesive and the joint stays light. (http://www.mcmaster.com/#spaghetti-tubing/=stk3vo)

For hardwood or plywood, 30 min. epoxy; for laminating, foam and foamboard, I like the white gorilla glue; I also use hot glue for foamboard.

When building with balsa/wood, I use thin CA mostly.. and sometimes the "gel" formula. I also use slow-setting epoxy around engine mounts; mostly because of it's extra strength and resistance to fuel. I am quite frugal.. and buy the cheapest stuff I can find. I'll usually buy 4-pack's of small (.11 oz./ea.) tubes of thin CA for $1.00 at an outlet store.. and write the date on the package. I use-up the oldest stock  first. Even if I only get one use out of a tube.. it cost me $.25.. but I have found that the tubes I buy, don't clog much.. and I typically get several uses out of each one.. even if it sits unused for months. I always clean the tip and draw the liquid back into the tube by slightly squeezing it on the opposite sides that it was squeezed for use.. and re-cap it tightly. Try it.. My no-name economy brand is made by "Henkel".. who also makes "Loctite".. although the same amount of Loctite product costs 3 times as much.

Here's what my tubes look like.. I got these at Wal-Mart.



A small slow-running fan placed beside and a bit behind you, aimed at your work.. should always be used when working with CA glue. When CA "kicks" you can actually see the vapors release in the reaction. DON'T breathe these in! CA is just one of a number of chemicals that you can develop an allergic reaction to; that will stay with you and affect you whenever you're exposed to it again. Other chemicals we commonly use in our hobby require more extreme ventilation measures.. like ensuring a fresh flow of air (intake/exhaust) through your work area. If you do a LOT of building/finishing using harmful chemicals, it will eventually do irreversible damage to your nervous system, if you don't protect yourself properly.

I use Loctite Super glue Liquid.


I always thought it was considered thin. But then I bought a bottle of "Thin" CA at Hobby Lobby with a pink label, and boy it's so thin that you can't even see it come out, and suddenly your part, the bottle, your fingers, and everything else nearby are wet. It's great for instantly hardening wood, but it won't even stick two pieces of balsa together because it all absorbs so fast there's none left on the surface to stick. It bonds skin pretty good though. I love the Loctite shown above. Made by Henkel as Roddie stated.
Rusty

RknRusty wrote:I use Loctite Super glue Liquid.


I always thought it was considered thin. But then I bought a bottle of "Thin" CA at Hobby Lobby with a pink label, and boy it's so thin that you can't even see it come out, and suddenly your part, the bottle, your fingers, and everything else nearby are wet. It's great for instantly hardening wood, but it won't even stick two pieces of balsa together because it all absorbs so fast there's none left on the surface to stick. It bonds skin pretty good though. I love the Loctite shown above. Made by Henkel as Roddie stated.
Rusty

When Satelite City released the first "Hot Stuff" there was only thin. We used to brush baking soda on the joint to fill the gaps.

George

gcb wrote:When Satelite City released the first "Hot Stuff" there was only thin. We used to brush baking soda on the joint to fill the gaps.

George

I first learned about baking soda when I got back into modeling and found RCG and I keep a container of it in my glue junk drawer. Lightweight drywall spackle and CA is also a good gap filler for bigger areas and gets rock hard instantly.

I wonder How Ian's CA burn is healing up... Ian? You doing okay dude?

Rusty

It didn't stop my model makiing and engineering but it did stop me flicking propellers!

I don't discount CA glues, far from it. It is just that when it comes to old balsa, like the Berkeley kits, it doesn't work that well. I have the Locktite stuff. For each glue there is an optimal place where it works best. That best describes my use of the various glues. Because CA is more expensive, I don't do all CA builds.

I love the smell produced by Ambroid, Duco, Sigment, etc. when they are drying. They have a pleasing aroma, much better than the standard air freshneners, IMO.  Only person that might object is my wife.    

I use thin, med and thick CA as well as epoxy and aliphatic glues depending on what the job calls for. I also use different substrates to mix with each glue like baking soda and thin ca, baby powder, micro balloons or milled fiberglass with epoxy or aliphatic glues or even tinting epoxy with paint.
Also, the "Super Phatic" in the above video can be substituted for either thinned Tite-Bond or Gorilla wood glues. It's cheaper and they work great for nylon pinned hinges as well as hinge points.

Shawn

Tinting epoxy and microballoons with paint would be convenient. What kind of paint have you used?

Hi Rusty,

It is probable better to use an epoxy dye, there are many epoxy pigments and colours available.

Skim through the windy videos below and you will see him mixing red, black and yellow for some of the scale cockpit detail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-64DkgWxPQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRMSdmhVe94

Tempra paint powder and universal paint tints are good for most epoxy products. Ask at the local paint store and the can usually hook you up with a small quantity out of the machine.

Phil

I've used everything from Testors Enamel to Aerogloss Dope with good results.

Shawn

sdjjadk wrote:...Testors Enamel...

Great. That's what I was hoping to hear. Anywhere I use it will be less than super critical, strengthwise. Fillets and fuel proofing around the wing root, for instance.