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Just couldn’t sleep.
Page 1 of 2
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2 
Just couldn’t sleep.
batjac Sat May 31, 2014 4:55 pm
Well, Thursday morning I got up as usual, did the work thing, and the dinner thing. But Thursday night I just couldn’t sleep. I didn’t work Friday, so I stayed up reading and cleaning up some. Friday morning I saw the wife off to work, and lay in bed. No joy. I got up and ran a couple of errands. Watched a couple of old movies. Did some yard work. Rearranged my engines on their shelf. Rebuilt a couple more engines. Did some laundry. Disassembled and rebuilt my nose hair trimmer. By then the wife got home and I took her to dinner (see my Score! thread). Watched some TV with her until she went to sleep Friday evening. Then I looked around for something else to do.
Last year I bought a couple of these promotional Cox wingsets, and put them away until the time was right. Well, I figured it was time. So I cut wood for two planes’ worth of fuselage, tail surfaces, and spars, one beam mount and one radial mount. I cut out the spar carry through in the ¼” fuselages, and used that as a guide for marking the wing doublers on the fuses, and then glued the ¼” wing doublers in place.
I then decided to do the beam mount plane first. I cut out the beam mount slots in the fuse, and used some spruce sticks left over from a crash back in ’94 for the beams. The slots aren’t crooked like they appear in the photo. This crappy camera just distorts all pictures taken up close. Then I grabbed some 1/32” ply for the doublers. 1/16 doublers may have been better, but looking through my scrap box didn’t show any 1/16 ply in enough quantity to do the doublers that was straight enough. Just one warped piece of ply that I didn’t want to fool with.
And then trim and fit the Medallion .049 I’m going to use on this plane.
I taped the wing cores together to test fit everything, and then looked at the clock. It was about 4 in the morning, and I’d been up for 42 hours, so I figured I’d better make myself go to sleep, or I’d be useless at work Sunday. Here’s how it sits:
The Overly Awake Mark
Last year I bought a couple of these promotional Cox wingsets, and put them away until the time was right. Well, I figured it was time. So I cut wood for two planes’ worth of fuselage, tail surfaces, and spars, one beam mount and one radial mount. I cut out the spar carry through in the ¼” fuselages, and used that as a guide for marking the wing doublers on the fuses, and then glued the ¼” wing doublers in place.
I then decided to do the beam mount plane first. I cut out the beam mount slots in the fuse, and used some spruce sticks left over from a crash back in ’94 for the beams. The slots aren’t crooked like they appear in the photo. This crappy camera just distorts all pictures taken up close. Then I grabbed some 1/32” ply for the doublers. 1/16 doublers may have been better, but looking through my scrap box didn’t show any 1/16 ply in enough quantity to do the doublers that was straight enough. Just one warped piece of ply that I didn’t want to fool with.
And then trim and fit the Medallion .049 I’m going to use on this plane.
I taped the wing cores together to test fit everything, and then looked at the clock. It was about 4 in the morning, and I’d been up for 42 hours, so I figured I’d better make myself go to sleep, or I’d be useless at work Sunday. Here’s how it sits:
The Overly Awake Mark
batjac- Diamond Member
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
RknRusty Sat May 31, 2014 6:18 pm
Damn, Dude, I hope you caught some Zs. That's a week's worth of work for me on a good week.
I have a pair of thick foam 24" airfoils that are apparently meant to be joined to make a 48" wing. I have no idea what I'll use them for. Maybe I'll make something like a TEOSAWKI or a Ukey. Not that these are the same airfoil, but it appears to me to definitely be a stunter foil. Big blunt LE and a thick high point, large area. I suppose I could measure them and figure out the NACA numbers.
I'll be interested to see how you finish the foam wings.
Rusty
I have a pair of thick foam 24" airfoils that are apparently meant to be joined to make a 48" wing. I have no idea what I'll use them for. Maybe I'll make something like a TEOSAWKI or a Ukey. Not that these are the same airfoil, but it appears to me to definitely be a stunter foil. Big blunt LE and a thick high point, large area. I suppose I could measure them and figure out the NACA numbers.
I'll be interested to see how you finish the foam wings.
Rusty
_________________
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while you're doing it!
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...and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!
My Hot Rock & Blues Playlist
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
batjac Sat May 31, 2014 8:30 pm
RknRusty wrote:I'll be interested to see how you finish the foam wings.
Rusty
Rusty,
The foam wing is the same as the old Cox Super Stunter from the 70's. I'm planning on finishing the plane to look like the old Super Stunters. So, it'll have a white wing and black fuselage and tail surfaces. The only thing on the wing that needs painting will be the black wingtips. The wing is fuel proof, so I won't have to clear coat it.
Does anyone know a website for the guy who makes the vinyl reproductions of the old Cox model stickers? I searched through eBay, but he doesn't have any auctions up right now. If he has a set of stickers from the 70's Super Stunters (I know he has the later ME-109 set for the solid wing), I'll probably order a set from him instead of making my own. I have no problem making the crosses for the wing myself, but it'd be too much of a pain to make the fuselage decals myself.
The Painless Mark
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RE: Just couldn't sleep
rat9000 Sat May 31, 2014 9:25 pm
Mark,the sellers name on ebay was drywall 1302,don't know if that helps at all.
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
batjac Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:28 pm
Well, my ADHD allowed me to circle back around to this one. I first put some strapping tape along the inside of the wing cores to strengthen them.
Then I made up the leadouts and attached the bellcrank to the spar per the plans. I rough measured the pushrod and cut it to length, then installed it for final shaping. Normally I install the pushrod to either the bellcrank or the elevator, and then hold the stab/elevator in place by hand to mark the pushrod, but this time I decided to be smarter about it. After marking the stab with lines for the fuse, I put four pins along the marks and slid it in place. That way I wouldn’t let it slip in my hand and mark the pushrod wrong. Not to say that I’ve ever done that before, but one of Y’all might have had that problem in the past…. Then, I made marks on the pushrod for where it would exit the wing and bent at those points to get the neutral length just right.
Then I put some tape along the wing root to protect the foam, and cut the exit hole. With the hole about the size I liked, I slid the wing over the spar and hooked everything together. Perfect. Now, I just have to figure out how to slather epoxy on the spar to glue on the wings, and not get any on the bellcrank or wires.
Next, I cut out the blanks for the wingtips. I actually had to do this twice, because the profile on the plans was too small. I had to cut a larger set so I could sand them down to wingtip profile. I taped the blanks to the wingtip and first rough carved, then sanded them to the wingtip profile.
And lastly, I made up my trademarked Eaze-O-Flex™ hinges and attached the elevator to the stab. I then used my alignment pins and glued the stab in place, followed by the fin.
Only thing left to do is paint and then glue on the wing cores. It’s windy and rainy, so painting may have to wait for my days off next week.
The Posponed Mark
Then I made up the leadouts and attached the bellcrank to the spar per the plans. I rough measured the pushrod and cut it to length, then installed it for final shaping. Normally I install the pushrod to either the bellcrank or the elevator, and then hold the stab/elevator in place by hand to mark the pushrod, but this time I decided to be smarter about it. After marking the stab with lines for the fuse, I put four pins along the marks and slid it in place. That way I wouldn’t let it slip in my hand and mark the pushrod wrong. Not to say that I’ve ever done that before, but one of Y’all might have had that problem in the past…. Then, I made marks on the pushrod for where it would exit the wing and bent at those points to get the neutral length just right.
Then I put some tape along the wing root to protect the foam, and cut the exit hole. With the hole about the size I liked, I slid the wing over the spar and hooked everything together. Perfect. Now, I just have to figure out how to slather epoxy on the spar to glue on the wings, and not get any on the bellcrank or wires.
Next, I cut out the blanks for the wingtips. I actually had to do this twice, because the profile on the plans was too small. I had to cut a larger set so I could sand them down to wingtip profile. I taped the blanks to the wingtip and first rough carved, then sanded them to the wingtip profile.
And lastly, I made up my trademarked Eaze-O-Flex™ hinges and attached the elevator to the stab. I then used my alignment pins and glued the stab in place, followed by the fin.
Only thing left to do is paint and then glue on the wing cores. It’s windy and rainy, so painting may have to wait for my days off next week.
The Posponed Mark
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re: epoxy on foam wing
happydad Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:35 am
Mark: why not use white glue, (elmers or others), 0n the wing spar to foam wing joint? it depends on the type of foam and how porous it is, but i have used regular white glue in similar uses. epoxy would be easy to use on the wingtips and the fuselage to wing joint, but it is very difficult to use on inner joints like you describe. just my thoughts. 
happydad
happydad
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
Ken Cook Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:14 am
Very little epoxy is required, using Gorilla glue would be a much better choice and not the white version. Becoming familiar on how it works is something that takes practice to prevent it from oozing out. Dampening the balsa root glued to the fuse followed with some dots evenly placed around the perimeter of the root would yield better strength than epoxy would.
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re: epoxy versus white glue versus gorilla glue
happydad Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:08 pm
Ken Cook wrote:Very little epoxy is required, using Gorilla glue would be a much better choice and not the white version. Becoming familiar on how it works is something that takes practice to prevent it from oozing out. Dampening the balsa root glued to the fuse followed with some dots evenly placed around the perimeter of the root would yield better strength than epoxy would.
Ken: I am not familiar with Gorilla glue. What is the difference between white, or yellow glue and Gorilla glue? Is it a different consistency? Or a completely different makeup than white glue?
happydad
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
pkrankow Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:50 pm
Gorilla glue, the original brown and the low-foam white, is polyurethane, and WILL foam as it cures. It is moisture activated, and does not require air to cure. The foaming nature has given it a bad rep as being unsuitable for models, although careful, sparingly, application will limit foaming and prevent problems.
White glue is PVA (polyvinyl acetate) typically. It is also a fairly old man-made glue technology (as opposed to natural resins and animal glues).
Yellow wood glue is also typically PVA with some stuff to prevent reactivation with water, although there are other types of "yellow" "carpenter" and "wood" glues available.
There are threads on glues, glue technology, and gluing on several different boards. The technology changes pretty fast.
Phil
White glue is PVA (polyvinyl acetate) typically. It is also a fairly old man-made glue technology (as opposed to natural resins and animal glues).
Yellow wood glue is also typically PVA with some stuff to prevent reactivation with water, although there are other types of "yellow" "carpenter" and "wood" glues available.
There are threads on glues, glue technology, and gluing on several different boards. The technology changes pretty fast.
Phil
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
batjac Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:51 pm
Well, I did some painting this past week on the dry spells outside. All that’s left is to make up some crosses for the wings and fuselage, and then clear coat the fuse to protect the fuse crosses and the silver for the canopy. I really don’t like the silver (aluminum) that LustreKote has, but they’ve cut back on their spray color selection to only eight colors. One uses what one can. Besides the fuse crosses, the period correct tail marking would be swastikas on the fin, but I can’t seem to bring myself to put them on. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I don’t particularly want swastikas on my plane. After that, I’ll glue on the wing cores and wingtips, then finish up the leadouts. I just got in some 2-56 T-nuts, so I’ll use those for engine mounting. Lastly, it’s making up some 42’ lines and it’s ready to go.
The Old Fashioned Mark
The Old Fashioned Mark
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
Theo Kleynhans Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:57 am
That is a beauty Mark.
Really nice building!!
Theo
Really nice building!!
Theo
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
ian1954 Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:26 am
I like the colour scheme and seeing the build (I steal ideas!)
What are you going to call it?
What are you going to call it?
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
Cribbs74 Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:41 am
Good job Mark!
It looks very promising, flight report please!!
It looks very promising, flight report please!!
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
batjac Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:55 pm
Thanks for the compliments, guys. It was a fun, if protracted build.
Ian, what am I going to call it? I hadn't thought about it. I guess I'll call it...... Brünhilde!
The Legendary Mark
Ian, what am I going to call it? I hadn't thought about it. I guess I'll call it...... Brünhilde!
The Legendary Mark
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What came on the Brown Truck ‘O Happiness today!
batjac Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:23 pm
Since I was building the Cox FW190 from the plans that came with the wings I got, I wondered how it would compare with the Super Stunter from the 70’s. A couple of weeks ago the fuselage parts of a Super Stunter came up on eBay, so I figured I’d bid, using another pair of the foam wings I have and the Black Lynx I got from Matt at EX Models to rebuild a Stunter and do an apples-to-crabapples comparison. It wouldn’t be an exact comparison, since I’m using different engines, but it should be close. Here’re the parts that came today:
And with the Black Lynx and the pair of wings I made up for Brünhilde on it. Man! This plastic fuse is so much heavier than the balsa one:
All I'm missing are the elevator, bellcrank, pushrod, and wingtips. I see the elevators and bellcranks show up occasionally, so I'll watch for them. For now, I figure I can make up an elevator from a carbon fiber tube and some straight 1/16" ply, and a bellcrank from a commercial 3" bellcrank.
The Crabby Mark
And with the Black Lynx and the pair of wings I made up for Brünhilde on it. Man! This plastic fuse is so much heavier than the balsa one:
All I'm missing are the elevator, bellcrank, pushrod, and wingtips. I see the elevators and bellcranks show up occasionally, so I'll watch for them. For now, I figure I can make up an elevator from a carbon fiber tube and some straight 1/16" ply, and a bellcrank from a commercial 3" bellcrank.
The Crabby Mark
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
JPvelo Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:29 pm
Looks great Mark, looking forward to the flight report. I've struggled with the swastika conundrum myself. I figure if I ever build a nazi plane I will use the imperial crest from star wars in its place.
The Rebellion Crushing Jim
The Rebellion Crushing Jim
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
Cribbs74 Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:02 pm
Jim,
You could always use the Balkenkreuz or the Iron Cross. Neither of those carry the same negativity as the Swastika.
Interestingly enough when I was at Holloman AFB a couple months ago the Tornado's had Iron Cross markings on them. I thought that was strange as they were primarily used pre WW2.
Ron
You could always use the Balkenkreuz or the Iron Cross. Neither of those carry the same negativity as the Swastika.
Interestingly enough when I was at Holloman AFB a couple months ago the Tornado's had Iron Cross markings on them. I thought that was strange as they were primarily used pre WW2.
Ron
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
batjac Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:24 pm
Ron, the Balkenkreuz is what I'm putting on the wings and fuse. I have no problem with the crosses. It's just the swastika I don't care for.
The Cross Mark
The Cross Mark
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
dckrsn Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:47 pm
batjac wrote:Ron, the Balkenkreuz is what I'm putting on the wings and fuse. I have no problem with the crosses. It's just the swastika I don't care for.
The Cross Mark
The history of the swastika is interesting, to say the least. On my first
of several trips to India, I was surprised/shocked to see it displayed openly
and everywhere. Of course I had to research a bit, and discovered that its
origin dates back to 3,500-1000 BCE in the Indus valley of what was NW india.
What's more, it actually symbolizes "good."
How could such an ancient symbol of goodness become so corrupted?
Bob
Last edited by dckrsn on Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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re: plastic fuselage versus balsa
happydad Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:21 am
batjac wrote:Since I was building the Cox FW190 from the plans that came with the wings I got, I wondered how it would compare with the Super Stunter from the 70’s. A couple of weeks ago the fuselage parts of a Super Stunter came up on eBay, so I figured I’d bid, using another pair of the foam wings I have and the Black Lynx I got from Matt at EX Models to rebuild a Stunter and do an apples-to-crabapples comparison. It wouldn’t be an exact comparison, since I’m using different engines, but it should be close.
And with the Black Lynx and the pair of wings I made up for Brünhilde on it. Man! This plastic fuse is so much heavier than the balsa one:
All I'm missing are the elevator, bellcrank, pushrod, and wingtips. I see the elevators and bellcranks show up occasionally, so I'll watch for them. For now, I figure I can make up an elevator from a carbon fiber tube and some straight 1/16" ply, and a bellcrank from a commercial 3" bellcrank.
The Crabby Mark
Mark: that is a nice looking plane. what is the weight of the plastic plane versus the balsa plane? i guess you would have to guess some weight for the missing parts, (elevator, wingtips etc). I think the full fuselage makes a nicer looking model and should be better aerodynamically.
it does look very nice and will probably fly well with the proper power, if you can do it.
happydad
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
ian1954 Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:38 am
Hi Mark,
That is not a "Butcher Bird" (FW190) but a Messerschmitt (ME109). Well BF109 actually
The "Swastika" issue is somewhat contentiuos and I do not understand it. When building scale, semi-scale or representations od WWII German aircraft they are not correct without the swastika.
I too visit India where swastikas appear all over the place and nothing to do with Nazis.
My "political correctness" would consider walking around or even flying a model while wearing a Nazi armband a step too far. But the model itself!!!
I get a little frustrated - I build a model of a FW190 and because I put the sastika on the fin - it doesn't mean that I am a Nazi or have Nazi views. I BUILD MODELS!
Just because far right organisations have adopted the swastika doesn't mean that I should drop it from my models.
This is my Butcher Bird
It flies a treat - where does "political correctness" end - do we have to stop building representations of what were "enemy" aircraft.
This BF109 is insipid
It is always possible to model captured German aircraft (A British BF109)
Then you could go the other way and model a captured Allied aircraft
Or would that be a step too far?
The model in the first picture looks like an excellent stunt model aircraft - not true scale but modified for CL. A close representation of a BF109 - I hope your build can reproduce that.
Here is my latest kit awaiting build (long queue now!)
It will have a swastika on it. It took me a long time to find those transfers.
That is not a "Butcher Bird" (FW190) but a Messerschmitt (ME109). Well BF109 actually
The "Swastika" issue is somewhat contentiuos and I do not understand it. When building scale, semi-scale or representations od WWII German aircraft they are not correct without the swastika.
I too visit India where swastikas appear all over the place and nothing to do with Nazis.
My "political correctness" would consider walking around or even flying a model while wearing a Nazi armband a step too far. But the model itself!!!
I get a little frustrated - I build a model of a FW190 and because I put the sastika on the fin - it doesn't mean that I am a Nazi or have Nazi views. I BUILD MODELS!
Just because far right organisations have adopted the swastika doesn't mean that I should drop it from my models.
This is my Butcher Bird
It flies a treat - where does "political correctness" end - do we have to stop building representations of what were "enemy" aircraft.
This BF109 is insipid
It is always possible to model captured German aircraft (A British BF109)
Then you could go the other way and model a captured Allied aircraft
Or would that be a step too far?
The model in the first picture looks like an excellent stunt model aircraft - not true scale but modified for CL. A close representation of a BF109 - I hope your build can reproduce that.
Here is my latest kit awaiting build (long queue now!)
It will have a swastika on it. It took me a long time to find those transfers.
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
batjac Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:16 pm
Ian, I have no problem with other people putting the swastika on their models. And I understand the diverse meaning of the swastika, from Eastern cultures to Native American cultures. I can tell you that I am most certainly NOT a PC person. For me it's not political correctness, it's more a personal issue. My father, as a French citizen in the 40's, was on the receiving end of the Nazi troops' occupation. He immigrated to the U.S. shortly after the war and started over here. But, he still had personal demons to deal with most of his life. So for me, I'll leave the swastika off. Kinda like for my wife's family, who were in occupied Korea during the war. On her mother's side, her grandmother was the only surviving female from their village when the Japanese took over. It was solely luck, as her grandmother, a young girl then, had been away from home when the Japanese came in. So her family isn't big on Japanese cultural items.
But I encourage you to build your Stuka as scale as you can. I enjoy seeing a good scale model. I've thought of building a Still Stuka. I have the plans, but it's too far down on the wish list for now to even think about starting on.
The Invested Mark
But I encourage you to build your Stuka as scale as you can. I enjoy seeing a good scale model. I've thought of building a Still Stuka. I have the plans, but it's too far down on the wish list for now to even think about starting on.
The Invested Mark
Last edited by batjac on Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
batjac Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:18 pm
Well, I got her all put together. I still need to order a one ounce Perfect wedge tank for her, but for now I’m calling her done. Here she is:
The Done With Her Mark
The Done With Her Mark
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Re: Just couldn’t sleep.
Cribbs74 Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:32 pm
Turned out great Mark.
Do you have any engine offset dialed in? Couldn't tell from the picture. I bet it flies well.
Do you have any engine offset dialed in? Couldn't tell from the picture. I bet it flies well.
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