Re: Audiophiles anyone?

roddie Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:21 am

Admin wrote:I'll get everything set up to digitize that tape for you. I'll do a speed check on the Wollensak 8075A first, make sure it didn't drift the last time I messed with it. I'll digitize it at a sample rate of 48kHz 32bit unless you want 96kHz.

If you like the sound of HiFi VHS, you would be blown away at the sound of even general purpose tape such as Scotch 150 running at 7.5IPS.

Thank You Jacob! Whatever's convenient for you (for the sample rate)..

The Wollensak 8075A must be a pretty "high-end" machine? I don't have any cartridges.. and the only deck I have; is a 12VDC "Automatic Radio" that was my Grandfather's. I think it's missing the modular plug/wiring harness to connect it to power/speakers. It used to be in his travel trailer.. and the harness probably went with the trailer when he sold it 30 years ago.. as the speakers were mounted in an over-head compartment.

Where can one buy 1/4" tape these days? Radio Shack used to sell it.. but I haven't looked for it in years. Their brand was called "Concert Tape" as I remember. The AX-50 has a lg. reel of tape on it. How long does the tape last.. and how many times can it be erased and re-recorded? I imagine it must wear-out after a while. I tested the machine about 7 years ago.. and it works, but the speed was unsteady. I'm not sure if the problem was with the belt or the motor.

Just found a source to buy new tape. http://www.fullcompass.com/category/Reel-To-Reel-Tape.html?brand_id=&rewrite_name=Reel-To-Reel-Tape&query=&categoryOrder=Bestselling&&view=&ipp=24

**RknRusty** Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:43 am

Admin wrote:
RknRusty wrote:I used to love to turn this one up ALL the way and just soak up the chest thumping beats.

I'll request that tomorrow on the Bob FM all request lunch hour. I made them play Jimmie Driftwood's original version awhile ago. They play Horton's version all the time.

Be sure and specify the one from the album "Symphonian Dream." There are unplugged versions on other albums that don't have the same thundering bass tones.
Rusty

**Admin** Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:30 am

I'll request the song tomorrow, I didn't get to catch the all request lunch hour today.

The 3M Wollensak 8075 is supposed to be the best sounding 8-track recorder made however they can have issues with their motors. I haven't had a problem with the motor in the 8075A yet but the motor is shot in my 8055. For the last several months I have been trying to make other motors work in it but so far I have been dealing with issues with keeping the speed consistent when under different loads (a loose 40 min tape vs a tight 90 min tape). The original motor used a closed loop system that consisted of an internal magnetic disc pulse generator inside the motor and a adjustable motor control circuit. The motors I have been experimenting with all have internal centrifugal switches to maintain their speeds which is a pain in the @$$ to continuously fine adjust. I have been thinking about sending one of the Wollensaks off to be rebuilt and fine adjusted for $300, I would have to choose the 8075A though. They still make RTR tape but its mostly for studio applications now and costs a lot. There's a lot of NOS RTR tape on eBay. You'll want to be careful with the NOS stuff though, look it up online before buying or bidding on it to make sure it doesn't suffer from sticky shed syndrome (SSS, binder hydrolysis). There's ways to recondition tape that is suffering from SSS but its a lot of messing around. You can also record over used tape as long as its in good condition it should sound good.

**RknRusty** Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:01 am

Hey jacob, did Bob FM play your song for you yesterday, and get the right one? Did you crank it up?
I hope so, it's worth every bone shaking bass thump, just a booming song.
Rusty

**Admin** Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:31 am

RknRusty wrote:Hey jacob, did Bob FM play your song for you yesterday, and get the right one? Did you crank it up?
I hope so, it's worth every bone shaking bass thump, just a booming song.
Rusty

I didn't get around to sending it in to them yesterday, I'll try to do it today. I have Nitty Gritty Dirt Band "Dream" or "Symphonion Dream" LP so I can listen to it anytime I want. I haven't heard the song played on the radio before though and thought it would be a fun song to have them play. I would like to find the album on 8-track, you can get some really good bass with those 8-tracks. I actually have a feeling on where I might just find one, I'll try to run up there tomorrow.

Here's Bob 106.1 FM streaming http://v5.player.abacast.com/v5.1/player/index.php?uid=6423 if you want to hear it. They play a lot of the good old stuff along with some of the newer stuff. The other two local country stations play nothing but the latest country. There's the classic country station out of Wisconsin 1590 AM WIXK but they are a little too far away and sound tinny.

roddie Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:29 am

Admin wrote:

The 3M Wollensak 8075 is supposed to be the best sounding 8-track recorder made however they can have issues with their motors. I haven't had a problem with the motor in the 8075A yet but the motor is shot in my 8055. For the last several months I have been trying to make other motors work in it but so far I have been dealing with issues with keeping the speed consistent when under different loads (a loose 40 min tape vs a tight 90 min tape). The original motor used a closed loop system that consisted of an internal magnetic disc pulse generator inside the motor and a adjustable motor control circuit. The motors I have been experimenting with all have internal centrifugal switches to maintain their speeds which is a pain in the @$$ to continuously fine adjust. I have been thinking about sending one of the Wollensaks off to be rebuilt and fine adjusted for $300, I would have to choose the 8075A though. They still make RTR tape but its mostly for studio applications now and costs a lot. There's a lot of NOS RTR tape on eBay. You'll want to be careful with the NOS stuff though, look it up online before buying or bidding on it to make sure it doesn't suffer from sticky shed syndrome (SSS, binder hydrolysis). There's ways to recondition tape that is suffering from SSS but its a lot of messing around. You can also record over used tape as long as its in good condition it should sound good.

Jacob, prior to CD-R technology; I did a LOT of recording on compact cassettes. The sound-quality difference between normal-bias and high-bias was profound. I wasn't sure why this was.. but it didn't matter because high-bias sounded so much better.. I only bought that type. Usually it was TDK-SA60 or 90, but I also have many Maxell, Memorex, Sony etc. Was the high-bias technology that was applied to the "better"compact-cassettes, ever used with the larger (1/4" and up) recording tape? I used to multi-track record on a "Ross" 4 x 4 cassette deck. I still have it.. but one of the 4 channels is dead.

Audiophiles anyone? - Page 4 Ross_410

This tape deck utilized the entire width of the tape.. therefore a 60 min. tape actually had only 30 minutes of record time because you could only use one side. You could however mix and bounce three recorded tracks to an "open" track.. leaving three tracks available for re-recording. In other words; record on tracks 1, 2 and 3... and mix/bounce to track 4. Re-record on tracks 2 and 3... and mix/bounce 2, 3 and 4 to track 1.. Obviously you could only do this a certain number of times before the sound quality started to degrade.. and you could not edit an individual track after it had been mixed (bounced) with another.

What was particularly cool about having this machine.. was that I also had (still have) two high-end 4-channel receiver/amps. One is a Technics and the other a Pioneer. Being a musician; I could make my own "true" 4-channel recordings.

Here's a photo of my Ampex AX-50 where it sits lonely inside a cabinet in my music room (currently occupied by my 29 y.o. Stepson... Rolling Eyes

)

Have you done any research on modern "stepper-motors" as replacements/retro-fits for your Wollensaks? Maybe search some 8-track user forums to see if anyone has tried them? I was considering an experiment where the treble-rotors on "dual" Leslie cabinets could be sync'd-up to create a variable stereo Doppler wave. Using stepper-motors in place of the conventional ones; the revolving "horns" could be linked together using a data cable with a controller.. and either rotor's "timing" could be advanced/retarded to create a "wider" Doppler wave by using the two cabinets separated like stereo speakers. The Leslie speaker's Doppler wave effect can only be appreciated in a live "near-field" setting. Attempting to "record" and/or amplify (through sound reinforcement) the result becomes linear.. and the physical effect of the Doppler-wave is lost. Incidentally; the treble-rotor in a Leslie cab that you sometimes see "exposed" (from the rear of the cab with a panel removed) looks like it has 2 horns (projectors) that the sound comes out of.. where in fact; only one has an aperture down the compression-driver below. The other projector serves as a harmonic-balancer when the rotor is operated at fast (tremolo) speed.

**Admin** Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:37 pm

Adjusting the speed in the Wollensak. I don't have a scope yet or calibration tapes so I just wear two pairs of headphones and listen to the same side (both left channels) and sync the player up with the CD of the same album. I align the head using several tapes for the brightest sound and no crosstalk. The azimuth is adjusted with the stereo mixed to mono while playing Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass's song "Whipped Cream". With all the instrumentals, you can clearly hear when the right and left channels are out of phase. Once its checked and adjusted if needed, I'll clean the full transport and transfer your tape. This time I might think about actually locking the adjustment screws with nail polish so I hopefully won't need to readjust the screws again LOL.

The motor in the 8075A still seems to keep going, the motor looks different and the motor control circuit appears to be a different design than the one in the 8055. I have done lots of research on 8-track motors and have talked to other techs who claim that there are no suitable motors being currently made. Motors have to be found NOS or pulled from other working decks. The motors in the Wollensak decks run at a odd speed so even adjusting the internal centrifugal switch in a motor pulled from another deck doesn't seem to get it close enough to the correct speed. I could probably get it to work if only I could machine a different sized pulley for the motor.

**Cribbs74** Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:04 am

Is it possible to have the motors rebuilt? I know they do it in the automotive arena all the time. Especially older ones that cannot be replaced. Usually it's rewound and new brushes are installed, bearings etc.

You really have a talent there Jacob.

Ron

**Admin** Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:49 pm

RknRusty wrote:
Admin wrote:
I'll request that tomorrow on the Bob FM all request lunch hour. I made them play Jimmie Driftwood's original version awhile ago. They play Horton's version all the time.
Be sure and specify the one from the album "Symphonian Dream." There are unplugged versions on other albums that don't have the same thundering bass tones.
Rusty

I requested it yesterday (through email), didn't hear them play it. Maybe they'll play it on Monday.

Cribbs74 wrote:Is it possible to have the motors rebuilt? I know they do it in the automotive arena all the time. Especially older ones that cannot be replaced. Usually it's rewound and new brushes are installed, bearings etc.

You really have a talent there Jacob.

Ron

I could but it would be a bunch of horsin' around. It would likely need the sleeve bearings replaced, new brushes, resurfaced commutator, maybe rewound armature, new internal capacitors and resistors, maybe "re-flash" the stator magnets, "re-flash" the magnetic pulse generator disc, check and maybe rewind the pulse generator coils in the cap for the feedback circuit, then rebuild the motor controller. Finding someone to do it would probably not be the easiest (or cheapest) since the motor was really made to be replaced and not repaired. I have a motor that will work in it, I just need to take some measurements out of the other deck to pinpoint the exact mounting distance.

tru168 Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:19 am

Hi,

Everyone talk about audiophile here. I design and build single ended class A vacuum tube amplifiers for the past 20 years. I also build C core output transformers for my vacuum tube amplifier . I'm using Fostex full range speaker, and also a few others high efficiency fullrange speaker. Any vacuum tube amp builder here ?

sdjjadk Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:14 pm

tru168 wrote:Hi,

Everyone talk about audiophile here. I design and build single ended class A vacuum tube amplifiers for the past 20 years. I also build C core output transformers for my vacuum tube amplifier . I'm using Fostex full range speaker, and also a few others high efficiency fullrange speaker. Any vacuum tube amp builder here ?

Tube amps always have the best sound. Although I have yet to build a tube amp, I have built a few LM386 based battery powered guitar amps and I have schematics for a Cricket tube guitar amp that uses a single 12AU7 for the Pre-Amp and LM386 for the power amp. And I also have a small side business building Talk Boxes for guitars similar to the old Heil's that Peter Frampton and Joe Walsh used back in the 70's. Here is a You Tube demo vid of my talk box that I call the "Trash Talker"
I'm playing through an old Silvertone practice amp with no effects and the guitar is my 2011 Gibson 60's Tribute Les Paul with P-90 pickups.

As for sound systems, I sold off most everything when my family and I moved up north from Florida. I had an old Fisher component system with full range cabs loaded with 18" subs as well as 4 satellite surround speakers.
For guitar equipment, I play through a Vintage Crate V100 tube head with matching 4x12 cab and I also have a Marshall 4x12 cab loaded with Celestion G12H speakers. The Crate cab is great for the 80's metal style tones and the Marshall cab is great for the British, blues, classic and southern rock as well the 80s metal tones.
For recording, I use a Digitech GNX4 through the sound card of a desktop computer outputted through some JB Lansing speakers. The GNX has a built in 8 track digital recorder but I also use Cakewalk and Sonar Producer when needed.

Shawn

sdjjadk Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:28 pm

Admin wrote:

Adjusting the speed in the Wollensak. I don't have a scope yet or calibration tapes so I just wear two pairs of headphones and listen to the same side (both left channels) and sync the player up with the CD of the same album. I align the head using several tapes for the brightest sound and no crosstalk. The azimuth is adjusted with the stereo mixed to mono while playing Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass's song "Whipped Cream". With all the instrumentals, you can clearly hear when the right and left channels are out of phase. Once its checked and adjusted if needed, I'll clean the full transport and transfer your tape. This time I might think about actually locking the adjustment screws with nail polish so I hopefully won't need to readjust the screws again LOL.

The motor in the 8075A still seems to keep going, the motor looks different and the motor control circuit appears to be a different design than the one in the 8055. I have done lots of research on 8-track motors and have talked to other techs who claim that there are no suitable motors being currently made. Motors have to be found NOS or pulled from other working decks. The motors in the Wollensak decks run at a odd speed so even adjusting the internal centrifugal switch in a motor pulled from another deck doesn't seem to get it close enough to the correct speed. I could probably get it to work if only I could machine a different sized pulley for the motor.

The 8 track player brings back some memories. When I was a kid, I had a nice collection of 8 track tapes and I had one of the old Panasonic "TNT Detonator" 8 track players.
Audiophiles anyone? - Page 4 8trkpl10

8 track tapes were cool but it was a pain to try and find a specific song even more so to find a song that started from the beginning.

Shawn

**Admin** Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:01 am

Those Panasonic TNT players are among some of the most popular 8-track players. 8-tracks and the players can be a pain in the ass, especially now they are old and most are need of servicing. Nothing sucks more when the best song on the tape is broken in half by a "click".

Admin wrote:Roddie, I bet you'd like a copy of this! Top Hits on the Hammond.

I'm still working on the tape. There were a few issues I had to (and still have to) work out. The first was the pinch roller in the cartridge was either slightly hourglass shaped or was too slick as the player had a little trouble keeping W&F to a minimum. The 2nd problem is one that still puzzles me, there was intermittent static on the left channel of the first program and the right channel of the 4th program (the tracks on the edge of the tape). This only happens to certain tapes, it will play one tape fine while another tape may have the static issue. The static also goes away when the cartridge is jiggled or moved while its playing. I have only 2 players that seem to have this issue, the Wollensak 8075A and a Columbia deck. The issue may have something to do with pressure pads in the cartridges and or the head tilt as those 2 players have tilt adjustment screws. Most people I talked to say the head is shot due to a broken winding in the head which makes and breaks contact every so often however I don't exactly believe it in this case. Anyway I got the tape swapped out into another cartridge and had it good for awhile until half way through I noticed some buzzing in the background and realized I forgot to stick a MOV across the line to keep the line noise to a minimum (the deck itself could probably use a recapping, at least in its power supply as its just about 40 years old).

Rose Garden - Top Hits On The Hammond

sdjjadk Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:51 pm

[quote="Admin"]Those Panasonic TNT players are among some of the most popular 8-track players. 8-tracks and the players can be a pain in the ass, especially now they are old and most are need of servicing. Nothing sucks more when the best song on the tape is broken in half by a "click".
[quote="Admin"]

Yeah those old Panasonic TNT players were nice and they sounded pretty good for what they were.

.

sdjjadk Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:58 pm

Speaking of 8 Track tapes, Anyone remember the old "K-Tel" 8 Track Collections? When I was a kid, my Mom had the complete Disco and Rock collection. I can remember popping in one of the Rock tapes and the first song that played was I Was Made For Loving You by KISS. I think that was the day I finally became a pro at playing "Air Guitar"

roddie Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:14 pm

I vividly remember as a kid; looking at the "Columbia House" records ads in TV-Guide, where there were tiny "postage-stamp" type perforated stickers.. printed with the album artwork. Tear-off 8-10 choices.. and stick them on the ordering form and mail it away for some ridiculously low price.. as long as you agree to buy 4 more in the next 12 months.. at the club's "regular" prices.

Those were the days (for me..) when "UHF" channels were first introduced. Channels 27, 38 and 56 were the first.. and my favorite cartoon was "Speed Racer"!!!!!!

Audiophiles anyone? - Page 4 Speed_10

sdjjadk Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:41 pm

roddie wrote:I vividly remember as a kid; looking at the "Columbia House" records ads in TV-Guide, where there were tiny "postage-stamp" type perforated stickers.. printed with the album artwork. Tear-off 8-10 choices.. and stick them on the ordering form and mail it away for some ridiculously low price.. as long as you agree to buy 4 more in the next 12 months.. at the club's "regular" prices.

Those were the days (for me..) when "UHF" channels were first introduced. Channels 27, 38 and 56 were the first.. and my favorite cartoon was "Speed Racer"!!!!!!

Oh yeah your definitely bringing back some memories. I ordered many a albums from the Columbia House record and tape club back in the day. And I loved watching the Speed Racer cartoon when I was a kid too. The Mach 5 and The Mysterious Racer X's Shooting Star were my favorite cars. I also remember the UHF channels as well. Channel 20 WDCA and channel 45 (which was owned by WDCA) were the 2 major and pretty much the only UHF stations here in Maryland at the time. Ch. 20 always had all of the cool shows. They also aired lot's of great movies such as Kung Fu Theater and my all time weekly favorite, "Creature Feature" every Friday night and, Saturday's was the cool Sci-Fi stuff like Battle Star Gallactica, re-runs of the old Superman tv series, re-runs of the 70's Spiderman TV series, and Wonder Woman etc.. And on Sunday mornings it was mostly Westerns or War movies followed by reruns of Tarzan afterward in the afternoon and In Search Of with Leonard Nimoy in the evenings. Channel 45 was mostly older movies and some Westerns. Also, I remember when the tv's had 2 channel switchers, one for VHF and one for UHF along with a fine tuning ring on each channel switcher.
We also had a couple of "Sister Stations" here in Maryland as well. For example, channel 2 and channel 4 were both NBC and channel 7 and channel 13 were both ABC.

Shawn

roddie Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:06 am

Back in the 60's.. My aunt and uncle gave us our first color television set. A large "Curtis Mathes" console, that had some intermittent picture tube issues. We called a repairman who put a "booster" in the set.. but wouldn't guarantee how long it would last. It worked great for about 4-5 years!

Yes; I too remember the separate tuners for VHF/UHF with the "rings" around the knob for fine-tuning. V-hold and H-hold controls... color, tint, contrast.. Remember the "Works in a drawer" servicable TV sets?

Audiophiles anyone? - Page 4 Works_10

sdjjadk Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:24 pm

roddie wrote:Back in the 60's.. My aunt and uncle gave us our first color television set. A large "Curtis Mathes" console, that had some intermittent picture tube issues. We called a repairman who put a "booster" in the set.. but wouldn't guarantee how long it would last. It worked great for about 4-5 years!

I remember the Console TV's. When I was a kid, we went from a little table top B&W set to a 30" Zenith Console TV. Man it was like being in a theater compared to that little B&W set. And the color was awesome!

roddie wrote:Yes; I too remember the separate tuners for VHF/UHF with the "rings" around the knob for fine-tuning. V-hold and H-hold controls... color, tint, contrast..

You mentioned the Vert. and Horiz. hold, I can remember watching a show and all of a sudden, the it would go into am infinite Vertical roll and I'd get up, adjust it and it would stop for a few minutes and then roll the other way!

roddie wrote:Remember the "Works in a drawer" servicable TV sets?

I've never had one of those. Sounds like quite a contraption though.

**Admin** Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:01 am

A few days ago I picked up this 1939-1940 RCA Victor K-60 floor model console for only $24.95 at the thrift store! It is very clean inside, no rust on the chassis. The dial needle moves, the preset buttons work. The rubber cord was rotten and cut off the radio, the original cord was bunched up and stuck inside the cabinet next to the chassis. The cabinet isn't perfect, it has a few scuffs here and there. The cloth grill is nice, no holes or tears. The speaker cone appears to be fine, no visible cracks or other damaged. I carefully spliced another cord onto what was left of the existing cord and then plugged it into my "dim-bulb" tester fitted with a 100w lamp (the radio is rated at 75w). With my hand ready on the switch on my fuse block, I snapped the radio on. I'm aware that snapping these things on can be dangerous, not that it would catch fire but if the wrong capacitor goes or something happens to be shorted, you could kiss something hard to replace like the transformer or speaker field coil goodbye. The dial lamps lit up and the tubes started to glow. About 30-40 seconds later the radio came on and started to tune in stations crystal clear. There was no hum or distortion I could hear. I was picking up stations on all 3 bands, the tone selector works, everything seems functional. I didn't test the TV or phono inputs but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked too. I only left it on for a few minutes not going too far from my fused disconnect. It sounded nice and tuned in distant usually often hard to get stations. I currently have it sitting out in the garage as I need to make some room for it in the basement. I'll need to fully recap it, check resistors, maybe even realign it depending on how I think it performs after a recap. I have about 2 other tube radios apart as well as 8-track decks apart that I need to finish up before tearing into this.

roddie Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:12 am

That's "wicked cool" Jacob!!! There's nothing that compares to the sound of a tube amp and a nice heavy wooden cabinet for the speaker(s)!!

dckrsn Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:49 pm

Wow! She's a beauty. Those big old
table-tops and consoles always appealed to me.
Lots of tortiose shell plastic and artistic
woodwork, and great sound to boot.
Primo score Jacob.
Bob

**RknRusty** Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:11 pm

Our first color TV was a complete dud. It was a "Portable" RCA, probably 19-21" or so. I can't recall if it was an XL100 or if it predated that model. I don't think it ever had a good picture.

sdjjadk Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:43 pm

That's a neat console Jacob! Seems the older they are the better they work / sound. Back in the 70's, my Grandmother had one of those Coffee Table type cabinets with a built in stereo, 8-track and record player and I can remember sitting with her and listening to her Elton John records when I was a kid. When I think about it, I can still hear Philadelphia Freedom playing. Those were good times.
My Mom had the stereo but gave it to my Aunt a few years ago. It's still in mint condition and sounds just as good as it did when I was a kid.

Shawn

roddie Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:55 pm

I've had this Advent Model 400 for years. It always works. It's monaural but the sound quality is superb.. when using a decent speaker. I still have the original speaker cab.. but the driver's "surround" deteriorated long ago. This speaker is a Vestax VSII 2-way 8ohm cabinet designed for use as a spot monitor.

Audiophiles anyone? - Page 4 Vestax10

The Advent has an AUX circuit (female RCA input jack) and a tuner/AUX switch. Spring-type connections for speaker wire and external antenna screw-posts. I use a dual RCA splitter to create two audio inputs for connecting a modern/common cable having a 1/8" stereo plug on one end.. and stereo RCA male plugs at the other. This assures both R and L channels being mixed into my one channel amp/speaker cab.

Audiophiles anyone? - Page 4 Vestax11

Today we're listening to internet radio through the laptop's headphone jack.. but even a tiny Mp3 player sounds terrific. The Advent unit was designed in Cambridge, MA. I actually used to use it (with original speaker) for amplifying "bass" notes played through a synthesizer with my left hand.. and an old "upright" piano played with my right. I built a rack for the synth which positioned it directly above the piano keys. The amp/speaker fit in the bottom of the piano with the front board removed. I miss my old piano..

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