Another Li'l Satan build (Finished)

**Cribbs74** Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:45 pm

Hanging out in New Jersey..... Have a Li'l Satan kit......

Build time! Not much to look at so far. Knocked out the wing tonight, not much to this kit either. I should have it framed up in the next couple days. Seeing as I didn't drive this time I can't finish it out here in NJ so..... I will pack it up and hope for the best in my checked luggage.

This go around I am using Epoxy on the wing tips and the bellcrank mount. Why you ask? Cause it's darn strong and I have learned that yanking these things off a stooge weakens the bellcrank mount (thanks Rusty)

Another Goldberg bang up kit. I love em!

You know what really burns my butt? These kits were all over the shelves in hobby shops in the late 80's and early 90's and I just passed them up thinking they would be around forever. Dumb....

Lil Satan - Another Li'l Satan build (Finished) 4QbKx

Lil Satan - Another Li'l Satan build (Finished) 4QbKx

https://i.imgur.com/4QbKx.jpg

Ron

**RknRusty** Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:26 pm

Ah, the Li'l Satan. That one is well worth the effort. The nacelle was the most tedious part for me. It was made to provide built-in engine offset. I notice the new kits like yours and JP's have the bellcrank outside of the center sheeting. This makes it so that the control rod and horn don't connect to the center of the stabilator. Brace it if the kit doesn't specify it, to prevent the stab from flexing across its length.

Also on my Bean re-do, I glued a bamboo rod from up against the bellcrank mount across to the next further out rib to further prevent any movement. I butted it up against a square balsa pad glued to the side of that rib. But my replacement ribs are much harder wood than the originals. If you think yours are too soft for that kind of brace, maybe some other method is in order. I'll post a picture, hopefully before you get it covered, but it'll be next week before I get a camera out to the shop. Got another wedding this weekend, so I'm outta here tomorrow after dialysis.

Keep an eye on that wing so it comes out straight. I had force mine straight with wet spray and weights, plus stretching the Ultracote. The Satan is so light, it needs a strong engine to keep it tight, so plan for a good power plant for it. It's a great plane for 35' lines.

**Cribbs74** Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:38 pm

Thanks Rusty,

Your points are noted. I didn't realize Brodak changed bellcrank locations.

I am going with the beam mount. Mostly because I want to run your bladder.

TD .049 or .051 power, that should haul it nicely.
Very Happy

happydad Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:44 am

cribbs74 wrote:Hanging out in New Jersey..... Have a Li'l Satan kit......

Build time! Not much to look at so far. Knocked out the wing tonight, not much to this kit either. I should have it framed up in the next couple days. Seeing as I didn't drive this time I can't finish it out here in NJ so..... I will pack it up and hope for the best in my checked luggage.

This go around I am using Epoxy on the wing tips and the bellcrank mount. Why you ask? Cause it's darn strong and I have learned that yanking these things off a stooge weakens the bellcrank mount (thanks Rusty)

Another Goldberg bang up kit. I love em!

You know what really burns my butt? These kits were all over the shelves in hobby shops in the late 80's and early 90's and I just passed them up thinking they would be around forever. Dumb....

https://i.imgur.com/4QbKx.jpg

Ron

Ron: you might want to invest in a small box/shipping container for your planes when traveling. something you could carry-on. it would be worth a few bucks not to have your plane ribs crushed. Two Cents

happydad

**Cribbs74** Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:10 am

Not a bad idea, this time the wing is about the size of the box so I am just going to wrap it and throw it in my suitcase.

JPvelo Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:18 pm

If I may offer one suggestion, wrap the cloth for the hinges all the way to the back of the stabiliser:
https://i.imgur.com/ATIhD.jpg
This the third or fourth elevator on my Satan as the other ones split upon impact/landing where the cloth ended. That should be a wild plane with the tee dee. I fly mine with a black widow/high compression head setup on 43 foot lines and have my hands full when the engines really ripping!

**Cribbs74** Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:07 pm

That's a good idea JP, thanks for the warning. I noticed how flimsy the elevator was this evening. One again the surface was cut with the grain....

What I plan to do is cut a 1/16 ply doubler and epoxy it to the bottom of the elevator. That way it will be plenty strong and won't add much weight.

This little thing is really Li'l lol!

I didn't realize how small it was until it was all together. This one may hang for a while until I build my skill level up. Although I could always just try it out with level laps!

I am pretty much done all I can do here in my hotel room so if anyone is following please be patient. I will have it done soon. Here is where I am at. Stay tuned!

Ron

https://i.imgur.com/MSTTT.jpg

Lil Satan - Another Li'l Satan build (Finished) MSTTT

Lil Satan - Another Li'l Satan build (Finished) MSTTT

JPvelo Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:46 pm

Ron, I built the Satan specifically to build my skill level. I don't know the durability of the beam mount, but if you go radial and reinforce the nacelle with fibreglass you crash it like crazy and it will pretty much just bounce if flying over grass.

Ken Cook Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:03 am

I don't have an answer for why that bellcrank is placed outside of the sheeted area. I strongly feel that could certainly pull out and break. This won't happen in normal flying but certainly could happen if the lines go slack, flies across the circle and yanks on the other end. Typically almost every control line plane aside from a floating bellcrank which would utilize the spars for strength would have it's bellcrank encapsulated under the sheeted area. With the control horn on the extreme inboard side, the load on the stab now is being twisted. The original Goldberg design has the horn right in the middle as it should be. The Goldberg design also utilized a 1/16" ply triangulated doubler which was 1 3/8" wide and had it's grain running perpendicular to the elevator glued smack in the middle of the elevator. This would stop the splitting and cracking as others have mentioned on here. Most would say that the forces on a 1/2A model are slim to none. I disagree as the model is going at a fairly fast rate and physics are a constant here. These forces are squared as the speed increases requiring even more throw for a faster moving model . The wood selection used in the laser cut kits have a tendency to be on the light punky side. C grain wood should be selected for elevators regardless of what was in the kit. This saves a lot of headaches later on. Ken

Kim Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:09 am

Might it be worth the weight to add a vertical sheer web in the next rib bay, running from the bellcrank plate to the next rib, along with a couple hard-balsa diagonal ribs from the corners?

Lil Satan - Another Li'l Satan build (Finished) Little14

Lil Satan - Another Li'l Satan build (Finished) Little14

Looks great by the way !

**Cribbs74** Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:34 am

Thanks for the input guys.

You'll have to ask John Parker as to why he modified the plans. I see no need for it either. I could always call up the other John and ask as well. I am going to reinforce the elevator with ply. I said 1/16, but I meant 1/32.

The ply doubler is still in the kit only it's on the inboard side.

Kim, I will go ahead and reinforce the bellcrank box as it won't add much weight and since the power will be TD it will be a terror no matter the weight.

JP, I will glass the nose regardless of what I use. I could go radial still as it's real easy to affix the beams after it's all built.

This one is going to be a handful! lol!

**RknRusty** Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:27 pm

RknRusty wrote:...Also on my Bean re-do, I glued a bamboo rod from up against the bellcrank mount across to the next further out rib to further prevent any movement. I butted it up against a square balsa pad glued to the side of that rib. But my replacement ribs are much harder wood than the originals. If you think yours are too soft for that kind of brace, maybe some other method is in order. I'll post a picture, hopefully before you get it covered...

I followed up on this in the Refried Bean thread since it was relevant to that topic..

**Cribbs74** Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:33 pm

I overlooked the obvious, the reason the bellcrank has been relocated on this kit is the fuel tank was designed to reside inside the sheeted area. I don't know what to do at this point. I could just throw a black widow on it, but then what's the point in having the bellcrank in that location. I could run the TD, but I would have to remove the sheeting to install the tank. What to do...... Huh...

Godsey3.0 Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:02 pm

I would very carefully remove the sheeting (in one piece) and install a tank. Then reattach the sheeting afterwards. Using sawdust and elmers glue to fill in any holes or gaps left behind (not really necessary depending on covering material).

**RknRusty** Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:10 pm

I agree. It's very easy to perform surgery on the sheeting. If there are any gaps you don't want to show through the covering, just fill and sand with lightweight drywall spackling. Now I know why they moved the bellcrank.

On the other hand, you know my favorite method. Not as pretty but easy to access:
Lil Satan - Another Li'l Satan build (Finished) Lil_sa10

Lil Satan - Another Li'l Satan build (Finished) Lil_sa10

**Cribbs74** Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:22 pm

Thanks guys,

Rusty, I would love to run your bladder setup on this one. I wonder if I could make an accessable cradle in that open area? Perhaps a hatch setup? I would need to fuel proof the whole bay and make a drain hole as the bladder would fail eventually.

Godsey3.0 Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:04 pm

I have considered doing this with a balloon. Basically a box to hold the bladder. You just have to make sure it is thoroughly fuel proofed.

Rolla

**Cribbs74** Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:12 pm

Godsey3.0 wrote:I have considered doing this with a balloon. Basically a box to hold the bladder. You just have to make sure it is thoroughly fuel proofed.

Rolla

Exactly what I was thinking Rolla. Not sure there is enough room in the Satan though.

**RknRusty** Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:01 pm

Whatever you do, make it easy access, so if you pop one in the field you can plug a new one on quickly. I burst one last weekend and it took me a couple of minutes to crank up and fly again. Also remember that nacelle absorbs and redistributes a lot of forces during an impact. Once when my Satan hit the ground, the clearcoat on the nacelle was covered with spiderweb fractures. The wood was fine but you could tell it had sprung. If I'd had a trap door in the top of it...???

I thought about a cut out in a rib bay, but the bladder gets fatter than the Satan airfoil. Not like on Ken's combat plane where there is room to put the bladder in sideways. And lengthwise would put most of a full tank behind the CG. See where mine is positioned empty? With an ounce in it, it straddles the CG.

**Cribbs74** Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:38 am

Thanks Rusty,

I will see what may or may not work. The plans only call for a 1/4 wedge. Not sure how long a TD will fly on that.

**RknRusty** Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:50 am

cribbs74 wrote:...The plans only call for a 1/4 wedge. Not sure how long a TD will fly on that.

About 90 seconds I think. I usually use 3/4oz for my flights. That last video I did was 3/4oz, so how ever long that was should give you an idea.

**Cribbs74** Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:01 am

RknRusty wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:...The plans only call for a 1/4 wedge. Not sure how long a TD will fly on that.
About 90 seconds I think. I usually use 3/4oz for my flights. That last video I did was 3/4oz, so how ever long that was should give you an idea.

Guess I didn't see your last vid! I didn't realize you tested the new setup yet.........have a link?

**RknRusty** Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:09 am

cribbs74 wrote:
RknRusty wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:...The plans only call for a 1/4 wedge. Not sure how long a TD will fly on that.
About 90 seconds I think. I usually use 3/4oz for my flights. That last video I did was 3/4oz, so how ever long that was should give you an idea.

Guess I didn't see your last vid! I didn't realize you tested the new setup yet.........have a link?

Oh, I meant the BFS video. I don't have a video of the Li'l Satan in action. Same thing though, Tee Dee on 3/4oz.
https://youtu.be/NiAl56Z3bb4?hd=1

That run time is about 2:30. It might have been a bit shy of 3/4oz, but that's in the ballpark.

**Cribbs74** Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:33 am

RknRusty wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:
RknRusty wrote:
cribbs74 wrote:...The plans only call for a 1/4 wedge. Not sure how long a TD will fly on that.
About 90 seconds I think. I usually use 3/4oz for my flights. That last video I did was 3/4oz, so how ever long that was should give you an idea.

Guess I didn't see your last vid! I didn't realize you tested the new setup yet.........have a link?
Oh, I meant the BFS video. I don't have a video of the Li'l Satan in action. Same thing though, Tee Dee on 3/4oz.
https://youtu.be/NiAl56Z3bb4?hd=1

That run time is about 2:30. It might have been a bit shy of 3/4oz, but that's in the ballpark.

I did see that one! Good flight though. I guess I can throw the tank in there and see what happens. Worst case is I abandon the tank in place and throw on the bladder if it ain't enough.

**Cribbs74** Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:16 pm

Got the wing done.... I figured I best keep building seeing as I crash daily. Very Happy

https://i.imgur.com/fLdIl.jpg

Lil Satan - Another Li'l Satan build (Finished) FLdIl

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