model airplane yard-sale

roddie wrote:.. and a big OS engine with a supercharger.

!?!...A supercharger!?!???? Do tell, what did that configuration look like?

Okay, I answered my own question. This one is for a car, but the first link I clicked was for an airplane. I haven't found a good illustration of the actual blower yet. Still looking.

Rusty

https://youtu.be/ydc6XQpFID0

You sure that wasn't a dream!! HaHa!!

WOW There is someone that flies 2-3 miles from you !!?? Sounds like a money trap to me . LOL I 've not seen the supercharged engine before , that's crazy

I am inclined to think it's an innovation for people with more money than sense. If it really develops any serious boost, it probably hammers the crank, connecting rod parts, and bearings beyond their tolerable specs.

RknRusty wrote:I am inclined to think it's an innovation for people with more money than sense. If it really develops any serious boost, it probably hammers the crank, connecting rod parts, and bearings beyond their tolerable specs.

The engine was I believe; the single-cylinder OS 20cc FS 120S four-stroke produced in 1990. It was a high-performance version with a "Roots-type" supercharger fitted by OS.

See here..

http://www.osengines.com/history.html

The supercharger looks to be on the rear of the engine, and driven directly off the crankshaft with rear-induction. That would make practical-sense to me.

Here's a vid of an RC Extra 300 powered by this engine. It's a torque-monster..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK4Avu_7GBQ



I'll have to check back with the guy.. but I'm pretty sure that he had that engine for sale.

Those supercharged 120s are an OS engine collectors dream. They bring good money usually. These are the type of sales where you find a coffee can full of RR-1s or strato bugs.

Jason_WI wrote:Those supercharged 120s are an OS engine collectors dream. They bring good money usually. These are the type of sales where you find a coffee can full of RR-1s or strato bugs.

I don't know what that OS engine is worth. It isn't something that I'd be particularly interested in. I wouldn't know how to assess it's condition either.

I really want to go back and look through all the stuff when there's some time (with both parties..) to look closely at everything. I don't know if there will be another "yard-sale". I didn't have time (or think..) to ask if the items were being listed for sale anywhere else. I'll just have to play it by ear.. and stop-by when I see the fella's truck there, at a time that wouldn't seem intrusive. Maybe mid-morning or mid-afternoon.

Yeah, sounds like he has some interesting stuff, I'd be curious to see some pictures.

What does "Roots" mean? I've heard the term, but don't know, unless it means just what it is; a direct drive off the crank.

RknRusty wrote:Yeah, sounds like he has some interesting stuff, I'd be curious to see some pictures.

What does "Roots" mean? I've heard the term, but don't know, unless it means just what it is; a direct drive off the crank.

"Rootes" was the English company that designed this style of blower. Detroit diesels (2 stroke) use a "Rootes style" blower.

The Rootes Group made numerous different cars brands, including Hillman, Humber, Sunbeam Talbot etc. Also, they were pretty much the British arm of Chrysler. I also once had a French Simca which was marketed here by Chrysler/Rootes.

YA SNOOZE, YA LOOSE.....Id recommend stopping back and tape a note on the door with your phone number to call as soon as he's available. I did a quick search of craigslist roadie island and did not find any rc planes, engines or large lots of models listed, BUT there is a guy who wants to buy "all your stuff sitting around"  with multiple listings like this:

https://providence.craigslist.org/wan/6071968922.html.   Or

https://capecod.craigslist.org/wan/6071942101.html

Yeah, so sad, I was at a swap meet, a RC plane Swap meet, wearing my "Cox Engine Forum" t-shirt. Nice older gentleman hobbles up to me an says, "I just threw out a couple boxes of those old coxes! I didn't think anyone flew em anymore...." Waaaa, Waa, makes me wanna cry.

Oldenginerod wrote:

RknRusty wrote:Yeah, sounds like he has some interesting stuff, I'd be curious to see some pictures.

What does "Roots" mean? I've heard the term, but don't know, unless it means just what it is; a direct drive off the crank.

"Rootes" was the English company that designed this style of blower.  Detroit diesels (2 stroke) use a "Rootes style" blower.

The Rootes Group made numerous different cars brands, including Hillman, Humber, Sunbeam Talbot etc.  Also, they were pretty much the British arm of Chrysler.  I also once had a French Simca which was marketed here by Chrysler/Rootes.

Her's a picture of a Detroit Diesel V12 with 2 blowers taken in the engine room of a boat



However, there is a little misunderstanding. It is a Roots blower named after the American brothers Roots and has nothing to do with the British Rootes Group, also named after 2 brothers. The  rootes group became important after the split of STD - Sunbeam Talbot Darracq - in 1934 with the British part integrating the Rootes Group and with Antony Lago continuing the French branch as Talbot Lago.

Oldenginerod wrote:

RknRusty wrote:Yeah, sounds like he has some interesting stuff, I'd be curious to see some pictures.

What does "Roots" mean? I've heard the term, but don't know, unless it means just what it is; a direct drive off the crank.

"Rootes" was the English company that designed this style of blower.  Detroit diesels (2 stroke) use a "Rootes style" blower.

The Rootes Group made numerous different cars brands, including Hillman, Humber, Sunbeam Talbot etc.  Also, they were pretty much the British arm of Chrysler.  I also once had a French Simca which was marketed here by Chrysler/Rootes.

Thanks, Rod. Now I know the rest of the story... Paul Harvey... Good day. I had no idea.
Who used to like to listen to Paul Harvey?
Rusty

Thanks, Rod. Now I know the rest of the story... Paul Harvey... Good day. I had no idea.
Who used to like to listen to Paul Harvey?
Rusty[/quote]

Never missed his show! I always had a mental image of his country home he called: "Revelry". Somewhat like Arthur Godfrey, he was a fan of aviation, and often had a bit or two about it in his broadcasts. I also remember him also mentioning the AMA Nationals.

Paul Harvey.. "Good Day".. He was great to listen to. His voice was like a magnet.

OVERLORD wrote:

Oldenginerod wrote:

RknRusty wrote:Yeah, sounds like he has some interesting stuff, I'd be curious to see some pictures.

What does "Roots" mean? I've heard the term, but don't know, unless it means just what it is; a direct drive off the crank.

"Rootes" was the English company that designed this style of blower.  Detroit diesels (2 stroke) use a "Rootes style" blower.

The Rootes Group made numerous different cars brands, including Hillman, Humber, Sunbeam Talbot etc.  Also, they were pretty much the British arm of Chrysler.  I also once had a French Simca which was marketed here by Chrysler/Rootes.

However, there is a little misunderstanding. It is a Roots blower named after the American brothers Roots and has nothing to do with the British Rootes Group, also named after 2 brothers. The  rootes group became important after the split of STD - Sunbeam Talbot Darracq - in 1934 with the British part integrating the Rootes Group and with Antony Lago continuing the French branch as Talbot Lago.

I seems I've been misled.  We have a vintage club member who explained the operation of the Commer "Knocker" engines which he used to repair. They are a two stroke and have a Roots blower.  Commer are part of the Rootes group.  Maybe he also made the assumption.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2014/10/ferraris-flat-twelve-dyno/

Oldenginerod wrote:We have a vintage club member who explained the operation of the Commer "Knocker" engines which he used to repair. They are a two stroke and have a Roots blower.  Commer are part of the Rootes group.  Maybe he also made the assumption.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2014/10/ferraris-flat-twelve-dyno/

That's an interesting engine, with sets of pistons converging on each other. 1968 marked the beginning of pollution devices on US automobiles with California preceding that a couple years earlier. Since the Knocker engine was 2 stroke, I'm wondering if discontinuation had more to do with that than anything. Trucks were quite as scrutinized at least in US until years later. Fact US Chrysler bought them out and not wanting competing engines might be my guess. That is an interesting part of history. Less familiar with pollution controls outside US, may be didn't apply in Europe until later.

60 years ago, the Japanese Hino heavy truck and bus company had a 4 cylinder diesel truck engine that would chug when it hauled heavy loads or so I heard. Back in the early 1970's I had a rear water cooled engine (1300 cc) 1968 Hino Contessa 4 door sedan, a Japanese Renault in high school, bought for a song because it was basically an orphan. (No dealership in US and imported by Budget Rent a Car.) It sort of resembled the Renault R-10, technology was licensed from Renault.

roddie wrote:

Jason_WI wrote:Those supercharged 120s are an OS engine collectors dream. They bring good money usually. These are the type of sales where you find a coffee can full of RR-1s or strato bugs.

I don't know what that OS engine is worth. It isn't something that I'd be particularly interested in. I wouldn't know how to assess it's condition either.

I really want to go back and look through all the stuff when there's some time (with both parties..) to look closely at everything. I don't know if there will be another "yard-sale". I didn't have time (or think..) to ask if the items were being listed for sale anywhere else. I'll just have to play it by ear.. and stop-by when I see the fella's truck there, at a time that wouldn't seem intrusive. Maybe mid-morning or mid-afternoon.  

I met with the fella this morning.. and brought home some stuff. No RR-1s.. though. It took him a while to find the box containing the C/L engines.. but luckily he did. There was no yard-sale today (raining..) and this fella's small garage was packed full of RC airplanes. BIG models with 30cc engines are what he's into currently.

Here's what I got..



Those Fox .35's are pretty rough.. but I couldn't resist. (I'm gonna need to buy a crock-pot for sure..)

The Fox .25 RC in the back row has been converted to C/L. Not sure what the NVA is..



Then there's this Enya which doesn't look too bad..



I tried to keep a poker-face when he showed me the Tee Dee..

I asked him what he'd take for the lot.. and he said.. "just take them".. I had to make him take a $20 bill which he did.. reluctantly. Then before I left.. he gave me a .40 size RC trainer less radio and engine!!

The Enya .29 is a very strong runner. They offer a lot of power. Appears you also have a OK .059 reed engine. I'm quite fond of those and they surprisingly offer a very steady run. The Fox .25 was offered in that configuration even though it had r/c casted onto it. Yours is missing the spring but that's all Fox equipment. Duke used that needle assembly in many engines . The .049, .07, .15 bb slant plug .15, .19 bb, .25 bb etc. They can be a bit fickle and problematic at times. Don't make a habit of digging for worms with that engine as you can break the casting. George mentions it many times on here to use nylon screws so they break off. They like a low pitch prop 9x4 and wind them up. they're not going to run like the .35 stunt. They run a fast 2. The muffler that came with that series engine is desirable to the Fox .35 crowd as it works superior to the tilt down blimp style when the guts are removed. They fit entirely around the stack opposed to butting up to it. It will fit many of the Fox .35's with the exception of the 50th and 60th versions. When the ears break off a piece of radiator hose clamp mounted to the muffler makes a good attachment just don't over tighten as it can distort the case

Ken Cook wrote:The Enya .29 is a very strong runner. They offer a lot of power. Appears you also have a OK .059 reed engine. I'm quite fond of those and they surprisingly offer a very steady run. The Fox .25 was offered in that configuration even though it had r/c casted onto it. Yours is missing the spring but that's all Fox equipment. Duke used that needle assembly in many engines . The .049, .07, .15 bb slant plug .15, .19 bb, .25 bb etc. They can be a bit fickle and problematic at times. Don't make a habit of digging for worms with that engine as you can break the casting. George mentions it many times on here to use nylon screws so they break off. They like a low pitch prop 9x4 and wind them up. they're not going to run like the .35 stunt. They run a fast 2. The muffler that came with that series engine is desirable to the Fox .35 crowd as it works superior to the tilt down blimp style when the guts are removed. They fit entirely around the stack opposed to butting up to it. It will fit many of the Fox .35's with the exception of the 50th and 60th versions. When the ears break off a piece of radiator hose clamp mounted to the muffler makes a good attachment just don't over tighten as it can distort the case

Thanks Ken, The OK Cub had me scratching my head.. It's not locked-up and looks to be "all there" except for one of the four tank-back screws. It looks to be a 2-56 x 3/4"L screw. It's not broken-off.. but the hole in the case may be stripped. I'll have to look closer with a an eye-loupe to see if there's any threads there. I do have some 2-56 x 1" screws.

I now own three McCoy .19 red-heads though.. and one of these has a needle.

These engines haven't seen any action for a LONG time.. and most are grimy. The fella mentioned "Tarn-X".. as a product for freeing-up stuck engines... Have you heard of this? They're all going to need a scrubbing.. followed by a good bath..

A good crock pot cooking & they'll come up a treat. Especially the Enya. I bet it will come up like new.
Well done!

I have expressed my input in regards to cleaning old engines. My take is don't. The gaskets are compromised not to mention the seal of the heads and bases of those that are steel to aluminum. Clean them externally, clean out the spraybar well and free them up a bit and run them. The Fox's are going to be problematic due to the cork gaskets dried out and this renders them typically useless. The Fox needs it's conrod freed up by working it off the crank web. Penetrating oil and heat and a allen key frees it up. Sometimes you can use 3in 1 oil all over the cork gasket and let it sit for a while continuously giving it a dosing of more oil. Never pull the back plate but twist it and use a bit of heat. You can sometimes save them this way. Leave the Fox's burnt black with castor, they run better. Don't listen to others that tell you otherwise. The blacker the better. It appears your missing a lot of drive washers for the Fox. The problem there is that they tend to be a bit pricy. Seeing that they're all missing needle valves, I would opt for a better replacement. I have seen the Enya needle valves work very well in the Fox .35. Shtterman caries these on Ebay. You could rob the needle out of the Enya .29 to try it.

While it doesn't exactly fit the profile of the case, the Fox.25 drive washer will fit your Stunt .35's to try them. Gasket sets for the Fox became quite expensive shortly after the demise of Fox. This is why I recommend the anaerobic gasket maker. I would personally lap the back of the Fox cases. If you clean them off you can tell they're not exactly the picture of beauty. They can have porosity holes in the casting or raised edges which don't exactly offer the best surface to seal. Don't worry about removing too much material, the backplate doesn't extend enough into the case anyhow so this can also benefit.

You got a good deal, I would have snatched the Fox .35's as well. I used that style Fox .25 on a .35 sized plane and just didn't enjoy it as much as the Fox .35 it replaced. So I bolted the .35 back on.

I have one of those Enya .29's on a Bi-Slob. It runs strong!

Your TD looks like an .09, you will be suprised when it spools up.

Thanks for the comments guys. Most of these engines can wait for a real rainy day before they get any attention. I do understand Ken's thinking on the soaking. These are so dirty.. that the ones that weren't stuck, made me apprehensive to turn them through compression for fear of grit getting into the cylinders.

The Enya .29 (5224) has a small nipple on the bottom of the front case-housing. I assume it's a pressure-tap?



The engine is stuck, and this rust on the piston worries me..