Lil' Satan and friends

There's very little parts in a Lil Satan. The plan is full size and pretty much shows what's needed. A very easy and overlooked part is the triangular gussets at the wingtip and trailing edge. Without them, the wing is subject to racking. In addition are the tail boom gussets from the trailing edge to the booms. I would like  to add though, the center section sheeting should be replaced with wider sheeting. The sheeting can cantilever over both sides of the center ribs to allow a larger base for covering. As is, there's little to no area due to the plane being silkspanned and doped prior to gluing on the booms. With the wider sheeting, you can easily pre assemble  allow yourself a little luxury of iron on covering without the risk of it pulling off of the sheeting into the open bay. I typically make it a 1/4" wider.
       The integral tanked bee is probably the worst engine possible to use on this model. While it was designed for it, the plans dictate how the pickup is to be placed due to orientation of the backplate. Not only is it next to impossible to assemble as shown, it rarely ever works or stays put. A solution for this is to make a new firewall so that the orientation of the backplate has the needle facing up. Unfortunately, this places the needle in a bad position subjecting it to breaking or bending in a ground strike.  I have redesigned many for product backplates and placed a tank directly behind the engine (Not over into the next open bay). The Lil Satan turns just fast enough to provide fuel delivery issues. These issues become quickly noticeable using a Black Widow or Golden Bee.

I would also like to mention the center gusset on the elevator. It's purpose is to provide a bit of stiffness to the elevator and offer a larger footprint for the control horn. The single screw control horn is about useless. While on this topic, the control wire is shown on the print with a kink in it. The wire itself in my opinion is undersized and placing a kink in it and where it's located promotes bending. If possible, try and forego the kink and give the wire the straightest shot possible to the horn. A kink can be made directly after the bellcrank end to allow the wire to exit the sheeting. Seeing that you really can't brace with a fairlead, this keeps the controls from mushing out. The stock horn is too small and the center screw allows it it to pivot which can and will crash the model. The gusset on the elevator is balsa, if using wood glue, it will dry and dial a cup into the elevator. This center gusset piece should be substituted for a piece of 1/64" ply. Finding a decent piece of C grain balsa for the elevator will also discourage this piece from warping. If doping, place equal amounts of dope on both sides of the elevator.

Thanks guys, all good information. My son reads this stuff on-line and is amazed by the knowledge collected here.

The kit looks to be mostly complete including the gussets that Ken mentions but it's missing the twin booms. I can get the length from the plans but I will have to guess at the profile. I have some hard 1/4" balsa that should work just fine to replicate.

Everything is a little insect eaten but usable.







Bob

Bob, the booms were 1/8" originally. However, the Satan is a touch nose heavy. This is fine for the beginner but for the more experienced, a bit of tail weight is necessary. I found that( 2 ) 1/8" wheel collars balances the Satan when the collars are installed on the pushrod all the way to the rear. Of course all this is irrelevant due to different engines. You can take many different Black Widows and Golden Bees and you'll be amazed at the weight differences.  I would think that 1/4" tapered and shaped would more than likely do it well. I would only recommend this though for the experienced. Old style woodie wings can get a bit flighty especially on initial launch. Once the speed comes up it stabilizes but for the first lap it can be a roller coaster ride until it settles in. A nose heavy wing will do far better here. If you noticed, the Satan has no wing tip weight. The engine nacelle is all the way to the right with the cylinder pointed outboard. It does work, but I would still utilize 4-5 grams of weight in the outboard wing. It just keeps things from getting crazy.
         
               While it's not clear on the print, the print mentions of not throwing any scrap pieces of wood away until complete. The leading edge is square at the wingtip ends. Adding small soft blocks and fairing them down to the wing tip assists in the covering aspect. Directly on that corner is where the compound curve is stressing the covering the most due to trying to radius in such a short span. Without these blocks the wrinkles can really compound in that corner so while it may not be necessary to install them, it really does the covering justice and it's one of those little things that just looks attractive when added. The plans suggest a 5 1/4-4 prop. This is the largest prop I would ever suggest using a Black Widow or Golden Bee due to it loading the engine too much. The wing however has a lot less drag but nonetheless in this application a 5x3 would do better in terms of rpm's as these engines tend to like to run on the higher rpm side with repeatable results.

Many like to stay with tradition in regards to covering, but I would never ever recommend silkspan on this model. It will just get torn up due to grass and weeds. It does add strength, but it presents far more problems in a negative way than in a positive one. If you do cover the model in a dope fashion, I would make it a synthetic covering opposed to the silkspan. I'm a fan of the iron on and I have never been faced with a weight penalty due to using it.

roddie wrote:Regarding the need to make the booms; it looks like the elevator is on a higher plane than the wing. Maybe that's an illusion because of the boom-shape? I've seen plenty of models that have a tail-plane that's higher than the main-wing.. but it just seems to me that it would adversely affect the model's ability to turn equally in either direction. I'm wondering too (if this is the case with the Lil' Satan).. whether that adds to its inherent instability when launching?

I'm just asking this question so that when Bob makes his booms.. he puts the hinge-point in the right place.

Yes, that's been concerning me also.  While it has a "flying tail" type elevator and isn't fixed I still have to position it correctly in relation to the wing and determine the movement limits.  I wish the plans showed those booms in profile in full scale.  

Shaving and tapering the 1/4" balsa for the booms is a good idea although I may have some 1/8" around here someplace.

roddie wrote:This is a cool thread on many levels. It's always good to discuss aspects of design.. and learn from other modeler's experiences! Most kits can and have been improved upon.. simply because cost-cutting measures resulted in kits that fell short of the original designer's efforts; both in performance and durability.

I'm excited to try the bathmat-stooge on a little flying-wing; the "Rod-Bat".. that I designed over 25 years ago.. and have never flown. I don't know who originally came up with that type of launch-assist.. but I learned about it here on CEF through Rusty.

Here's an old CEF link to his method..

Rusty's wing-stooge

I've always been a "loner" with my modeling activities.. and have built all of my models with landing-gear (wheels or skis) to be launched via a pin-stooge. I've never flown a combat-style C/L model. As many of you know; I'm building a 1/2-scale foamie Goldberg Voo Doo ("Phred's Phault")..    and my old Rod-Bat that has yet to fly.

Bob will likely want to try this launch method at some point with this model. I know that I will be giving it a try with my "flying-wings". Thanks Rusty! Building a flying model is one thing.. getting it in the air (especially when alone..) is another!

Two thumbs up roddie!

Thanks again all. Fred, my up-scaling eye isn't what it used to be, but that's about to change. A visit to the eye doc reveals cataracts in both eyes. Seems they want to reduce them to soup and vacuum them out and replace with clear corrective lenses. Hurray, no more glasses to fog over with black spray paint. Now if they could just steady my shaking hands. Years ago both my wife and my mother had this done, I'm just catching up.

Thanks to you fellows this project might turn out to be fun. I do have a roll of red monocoat that came with the Camel, but it's opaque not clear like Rusty's, and I kinda like that transparent stuff.

BTW, I was wrong, and for those wondering, it's not the first time. The booms are present. What I thought was a solid sheet of balsa when viewed from the other side are the die cut booms, just not cut all the way through. Live and learn.



The attachment for the stab looks suspect and complicated, Rusty’s carbon fiber rod looks to be the better arrangement.

RknRusty wrote:Speaking of launching, for those who've never seen our old young member Microflitedude Matt fly his first IC powered C/L flight(he'd flown an e plane once before), here's what the Satan does with full up elevator... hand-launchers beware!
https://youtu.be/0FzPcccyC78

Enjoyed that. Way to go Matt.

Speaking of young members, wonder what happened to Greg. We haven't heard for him in a while. He must have found girls.