Link to video of Cox .15-powered "Bird of Time" sailplane.

That is a cool flight. I have never seen a FF airplane in action before. I'm an old C/L flyer, but this is a whole 'nother experience. Are these as complex to learn to fly as an R/C trainer or intermediate plane? That video was on my birthday. That experience can be my 52nd birthday present.
I'm an old C/L flyer, but this is a whole 'nother experience. Are these as complex to learn to fly as an R/C trainer or intermediate plane?

Cz10 wrote:Nice video . No apoligies needed.

So how much fuel DOES a 35 MM film canister hold, anyway? I'm impressed - 5 min engine run. Started right up, too...

Hey Cz...I know it sounds weird, but I haven't timed either the .15 or .051 that I use on these canisters! Figure I could just read the times on the video counter, but haven't thought to do it yet (and write it down...I'm getting to where numbers don't stay with me well).

I DO know that the canisters hold almost exactly one ounce of fuel, and I usually only fill the 2-Meter B.OT.'s tank to about half or it's .051 will take it to the moon.

If you check out my video with the wingtip cam on the 2-Meter B.O.T., you can see fuel still sloshing around in the tank after the engine has died (loose venturi), but the altimeter it was packing STILL showed it's peak height to be over 1400 feet. And it wouldn't come down! I've never been able to get it to spin (the best method for losing altitude fast without excessive airspeed), so the other best way is to flip it on it's back and hold it there. It comes down like a rock without breaking the wings off.

I just know the poor yuppies over in the new subdivision have to wonder what the strange guy on the hill is up to.

RknRusty wrote:That is a cool flight. I have never seen a FF airplane in action before. I'm an old C/L flyer, but this is a whole 'nother experience. Are these as complex to learn to fly as an R/C trainer or intermediate plane? That video was on my birthday. That experience can be my 52nd birthday present.
I'm an old C/L flyer, but this is a whole 'nother experience. Are these as complex to learn to fly as an R/C trainer or intermediate plane?

Sailplanes are easy to fly...they just have some different requirements from standard trainers. Depending on how they're set up, they tend to respond slower than trainers...which can be good OR bad. Mine DO require you to think ahead a little bit on landings since the ones I fly are typically gas-powered with engines that exhaust their fuel getting the glider to altitude. There are tons of electric ones flying also...but I'm still mostly retro.

You can buy them in ARF form and have them flying in an afternoon (check out Tower Hobbies). A healthy Babe Bee with it's metal tank will take a 2-meter sailplane to 300-400 feet depending on the day...a LOT higher if you go with a Surestart or Tee Dee with a larger tank.

Most of mine require just 2-channel radios...about the cheapest deal around...but you should STILL spend enough bucks to get yourself a name-brand like Futaba or such.

It IS possible to teach yourself to fly just by leaving off the engine and chucking the plane down a hill, but you'd be WAY time ahead to hook up with a glider pilot. I'll be glad to help you anyway I can by way of the forum.

Well, gotta hit the sack...catch you all tomorrow...AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY RUSTY !

My first RC plane with proportional control and more then just rudder was a Hobie Hawk. I always thought about putting a 1/2A on it when I wanted to fly at a site besides the cliffs in So. Cal. Instead I used Hi-Starts - what a pain.

The one after that was a Midwest Little T. Real cute with poly-hedral and the horizontal stab & elevator at the top of the rudder. I could trim it out and in good lift like at Palos Verde Penisula, it would just go straight up. Not forward, not backwards, no turns - literally like an elevator - straight and level - with the transmitter sitting on the ground.

Gliders are easy to fly and really teach you to fly. The thing that is counter intuitive is to go up, give it down elevator ( and increase speed, therefore lift ). But I firmly feel that it is the ONLY way to truly learn how to fly. So does the USAF, apparently.

Kim wrote:

Cz10 wrote:Nice video . No apoligies needed.

So how much fuel DOES a 35 MM film canister hold, anyway? I'm impressed - 5 min engine run. Started right up, too...

Hey Cz...I know it sounds weird, but I haven't timed either the .15 or .051 that I use on these canisters! Figure I could just read the times on the video counter, but haven't thought to do it yet (and write it down...I'm getting to where numbers don't stay with me well).

I DO know that the canisters hold almost exactly one ounce of fuel, and I usually only fill the 2-Meter B.OT.'s tank to about half or it's .051 will take it to the moon.

Yea, that's what I did - used the counter. I assume that is a Keychain Camera ( though in your other video it looked like a GoPro).

Good info as I am trying to gauge the size tank I need - both for my TD .049/Norvel .061 powered L'il Satan and for whatever I use the TD .09 that I recently acquired on. I think TD's are a little thirstier then Medallions but 1 oz should give me 5 with the .09 and maybe 7 with the .049 - so I'm thinking maybe 3/4 oz for that - though that will be a bladder tank. I am actually thinking of using nothing but those for CL... I used them in the past and they worked really well. Fuel delivered under pressure beats attempting to suck it into the engine in my mind, at least for WOT flying. It really isn't that hard to implement. Even having a ballon tank works (no pressure) well. Jim Walker proved that years ago. I think having air and atmospheric venting in a model airplane fuel system is a problem in search of a remedy.

Kim it's lovely ibreally like the thermos wing and with fpv you get the bed view of the scenery.

Cz10 wrote:

Kim wrote:

Cz10 wrote:Nice video . No apoligies needed.

So how much fuel DOES a 35 MM film canister hold, anyway? I'm impressed - 5 min engine run. Started right up, too...

Hey Cz...I know it sounds weird, but I haven't timed either the .15 or .051 that I use on these canisters! Figure I could just read the times on the video counter, but haven't thought to do it yet (and write it down...I'm getting to where numbers don't stay with me well).

I DO know that the canisters hold almost exactly one ounce of fuel, and I usually only fill the 2-Meter B.OT.'s tank to about half or it's .051 will take it to the moon.

Yea, that's what I did - used the counter. I assume that is a Keychain Camera ( though in your other video it looked like a GoPro).

Good info as I am trying to gauge the size tank I need - both for my TD .049/Norvel .061 powered L'il Satan and for whatever I use the TD .09 that I recently acquired on. I think TD's are a little thirstier then Medallions but 1 oz should give me 5 with the .09 and maybe 7 with the .049 - so I'm thinking maybe 3/4 oz for that - though that will be a bladder tank. I am actually thinking of using nothing but those for CL... I used them in the past and they worked really well. Fuel delivered under pressure beats attempting to suck it into the engine in my mind, at least for WOT flying. It really isn't that hard to implement. Even having a ballon tank works (no pressure) well. Jim Walker proved that years ago. I think having air and atmospheric venting in a model airplane fuel system is a problem in search of a remedy.

Hey Cz,

I GOT to give bladder tanks a try. Seems like everyone that has loves them, and it's another area that I have managed to miss over the decades. The B.O.T.'s, with their totally exposed fuel systems ought to be good test-beds to learn about them. Another entry in "Things I Got To Try" file !

Cz10 wrote:My first RC plane with proportional control and more then just rudder was a Hobie Hawk. I always thought about putting a 1/2A on it when I wanted to fly at a site besides the cliffs in So. Cal. Instead I used Hi-Starts - what a pain.

The one after that was a Midwest Little T. Real cute with poly-hedral and the horizontal stab & elevator at the top of the rudder. I could trim it out and in good lift like at Palos Verde Penisula, it would just go straight up. Not forward, not backwards, no turns - literally like an elevator - straight and level - with the transmitter sitting on the ground.

Gliders are easy to fly and really teach you to fly. The thing that is counter intuitive is to go up, give it down elevator ( and increase speed, therefore lift ). But I firmly feel that it is the ONLY way to truly learn how to fly. So does the USAF, apparently.

Holy Cow! Guess we've all walked similar paths. I've got a Lil' "T" project parked and waiting for some eventual attention! I built one in early 80's, mounted the "T" tail on a 1/2A nose gear block at the top of the fin to make it a "stabilator" and designed a droppable engine pod with parachute so that I could jettison it once the fuel was gone. I left out the polyhedral when I built it, so that it would look more like a "real" sailplane. Might have, but it steered like a truck with that tiny rudder! The current one has polyhedral in it's wing!

And yes totally agree on the skill building with sailplanes. I've got some video footage somewhere of a young guy just tearing around the field with an expensive (large) ARF his Doctor Father bought for him. He learned to fly totally on one of the early computer simulators. As he pulled up into a vertical climb, his engine croaked, but he was WAY up...maybe two hundred feet or so.

Shouldn't have been a big deal...drop the nose, set up for a circuit, and put it on the field...but he did some wild twisting and flipping rather than let the nose drop and get his speed back. It just got wilder the lower he got, and he finally dumped it on the edge of the field, busting it up pretty good. Full-scale pilots call that "becoming a passenger in your own airplane"...NOT a good situation! He'd never practiced landing without power, always just "drove" it on and off the ground, then freaked when the engine quit. Probably not a big deal for him, as his dad could just buy him another plane, but that would sting a working guy pretty bad!

My instructor wrote inside the cover of my first log book "Thou shalt maintain thy speed, lest the ground arise and smyeth thee."

That has been the problem in a couple of airline crashes. The Air France one over the Atlantic and the commuter in the snow storm in New England a couple of years ago. They are being taught to power out of a stall. But when you got no power, it ain't gonna fly with the nose high. Sullenberger knew how to fly.

I'd love to build another Lil T. It was a sweet ship.

Kim wrote:

Hey Cz,

I GOT to give bladder tanks a try. Seems like everyone that has loves them, and it's another area that I have managed to miss over the decades. The B.O.T.'s, with their totally exposed fuel systems ought to be good test-beds to learn about them. Another entry in "Things I Got To Try" file !

Texxastimers.com has everything you need. I have an order on the way for my L'il Satan and Voodoo projects.

Cz10 wrote:

Kim wrote:

Hey Cz,

I GOT to give bladder tanks a try. Seems like everyone that has loves them, and it's another area that I have managed to miss over the decades. The B.O.T.'s, with their totally exposed fuel systems ought to be good test-beds to learn about them. Another entry in "Things I Got To Try" file !

Texxastimers.com has everything you need. I have an order on the way for my L'il Satan and Voodoo projects.

Well, shoot ! MORE exercise for my Paypal account !

Thanks!

Cz10 wrote:My instructor wrote inside the cover of my first log book "Thou shalt maintain thy speed, lest the ground arise and smyeth thee."

That has been the problem in a couple of airline crashes. The Air France one over the Atlantic and the commuter in the snow storm in New England a couple of years ago. They are being taught to power out of a stall. But when you got no power, it ain't gonna fly with the nose high. Sullenberger knew how to fly.

I'd love to build another Lil T. It was a sweet ship.

Let me know if you need plans..I'll figure out some way to copy mine. Also, I think Flying Models may have them in some of their archives.

Kim wrote:

Cz10 wrote:My first RC plane with proportional control and more then just rudder was a Hobie Hawk. I always thought about putting a 1/2A on it when I wanted to fly at a site besides the cliffs in So. Cal. Instead I used Hi-Starts - what a pain.

The one after that was a Midwest Little T. Real cute with poly-hedral and the horizontal stab & elevator at the top of the rudder. I could trim it out and in good lift like at Palos Verde Penisula, it would just go straight up. Not forward, not backwards, no turns - literally like an elevator - straight and level - with the transmitter sitting on the ground.

Gliders are easy to fly and really teach you to fly. The thing that is counter intuitive is to go up, give it down elevator ( and increase speed, therefore lift ). But I firmly feel that it is the ONLY way to truly learn how to fly. So does the USAF, apparently.

Holy Cow! Guess we've all walked similar paths. I've got a Lil' "T" project parked and waiting for some eventual attention! I built one in early 80's, mounted the "T" tail on a 1/2A nose gear block at the top of the fin to make it a "stabilator" and designed a droppable engine pod with parachute so that I could jettison it once the fuel was gone. I left out the polyhedral when I built it, so that it would look more like a "real" sailplane. Might have, but it steered like a truck with that tiny rudder! The current one has polyhedral in it's wing!

And yes totally agree on the skill building with sailplanes. I've got some video footage somewhere of a young guy just tearing around the field with an expensive (large) ARF his Doctor Father bought for him. He learned to fly totally on one of the early computer simulators. As he pulled up into a vertical climb, his engine croaked, but he was WAY up...maybe two hundred feet or so.

Shouldn't have been a big deal...drop the nose, set up for a circuit, and put it on the field...but he did some wild twisting and flipping rather than let the nose drop and get his speed back. It just got wilder the lower he got, and he finally dumped it on the edge of the field, busting it up pretty good. Full-scale pilots call that "becoming a passenger in your own airplane"...NOT a good situation! He'd never practiced landing without power, always just "drove" it on and off the ground, then freaked when the engine quit. Probably not a big deal for him, as his dad could just buy him another plane, but that would sting a working guy pretty bad!

Very good patent support engine in glider and very clever idea landing

i agree, that parachute thing is an engineering marvel, especially how the glider retracts its wings when the chute is ejected.

AND...anyone who thinks that sailplanes are boring has never known the thrill of ejecting an engine high overhead, have it's parachute fail to open, and attempt to continue control of the plane, while at the same time scanning the sky for a plummeting metallic meteorite that you KNOW is gonna land close in your vicinity!

yeah i really want to try a glider for .020 power i have found a kit for one but i have so many things i want to build.

nitroairplane wrote:yeah i really want to try a glider for .020 power i have found a kit for one but i have so many things i want to build.

Ah...THERE'S the rub.........

Yup kim I'm going to learn CL and want to build a glider you guys are really rubbing of one me:)
But it's good because it means I'm trying new things.

nitroairplane wrote:Yup kim I'm going to learn CL and want to build a glider you guys are really rubbing of one me:)
But it's good because it means I'm trying new things.

'Tis true Nitro!

One of my heroes is a fellow RC'r who, in his late 80's, is STILL designing and flying his creations. This man does not see the end...just an endless line of potential projects. I fully believe that a large part of his mental sharpness is the constant exercise he gives his brain. He went to electric power a while back, and this has allowed him to create some really beautiful WWII and other aircraft, painted identically as their namesakes.

To that end, my latest purchase is a small diesel I got from Mr. Eric Clutton. Gonna learn about these little engines and build something for it...just not sure at this point what it will be.

Good deal on the CL and Sailplanes! Depending on the size you go with, they can make GREAT engine test beds. With easily built engine pods, you can switch out powerplants in seconds. There's noting more fun than a beautiful day, a glider, and a box full of different engines to pull it!