is this a real of fake killer bee on ebay?

cmulder Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:22 pm

Saw this one and some things are suspect for example the needle and the box insert looks like to have a label for the engine name.

Could this be a real one or yet another fake?

ebay uk link eBay item number:155242995316

**Admin** Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:38 pm

Having an unanodized case and normal short needle valve, that is an Estes era Killer Bee. Likely having a normal (non lightened) bee crankshaft. It does appear to have the proper slit cylinder with sub-piston induction.

The Estes era Killer Bees can be found with both silver and gold cases, and almost always have a normal black cap needle valve (but be careful as one can easily swap the needle valve and make it look like an earlier one). Most if not all have the proper slit cylinder. Some have reported that the very last Killer Bees from Estes used a basic Sure Start cylinder (with no sub-piston induction), although I cannot say I've seen a legitimate one like that in it's original package. An engine like that would be no different than a Sure Start with a zero drag driveplate. I'd expect only the pre-Estes Killer Bees to have the proper lightened piston and tapered grind.

MauricioB Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:18 pm

hello!...I just saw this question...wait!, I have the same engine, with the same exterior characteristics...I will take a suitable tool and remove the rear plate, I will share here in order to collaborate and see what it is about!

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MauricioB Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:43 pm

well, this is what it is...
the Killer Bee crankshaft is missing... the rest seems to be all Killer Bee.
Friend Jacob may be able to give us more information according to the photos...

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balogh Mon Nov 07, 2022 12:39 am

I bought one from another UK ebayer. It must be a late pruduction engine, which was said to be a 051, hence the colors, see picture below.

Slit exhaust with SPI. Normal crankshaft and no taper bore in cylinder...to the contrary, very loose piston to cylinder fit. Piston (normal, not lightened) falls through cylinder even though brand new...had I known it, I would have not paid a single cent to buy it..As Jacob said, a late KB is pimped up Surestart, nothing more..

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KariFS Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:30 am

Andras, let me know if you want to sell that Killer Bee. I’ve ”always” wanted one for my collection, i.e. static display, but never got around to set up a feebay account.

balogh Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:34 am

Kari, I will send you a pm..

cmulder Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:35 pm

So inspecting the engine is the only reliable way to see if the correct parts are used right?
For £60 plus shipping imprort fees.. il pass on this one.

**Admin** Wed Nov 09, 2022 12:31 am

cmulder wrote:So inspecting the engine is the only reliable way to see if the correct parts are used right?
For £60 plus shipping imprort fees.. il pass on this one.

I'd bet it's "real" in terms of it being a factory produced engine. It's just a late production Killer Bee from some years after Estes took over Cox. Just like their version of the Black Widow which was identical to their version of the Babe Bee except for having a #1 cylinder. It (likely) won't have the lightened crankshaft or piston that the original design used. It also appears the later ones use a stainless steel reed (as used in all other late Estes-Cox engines), versus the mylar reed as in the original. My gold case Estes era Killer Bees do have mylar reeds.

If you see a gold case one with the yellow straw needle valve, make sure the seller shows a date stamped in the box (Estes ones won't have a date), and if the seller is willing to remove the backplate, it would be best to see the crankshaft.