2018 to 2019 CEF Run What YA Brung UNLIMITED speed contes (CLOSED)

getback wrote:Your gonna have to pu the pace a little ,,,     4 or so sec.   42' lines .049TD 35 % Sig fuel 68.8 or so mph i won with the only flight

Your video says reed speed, but you say it is a TD later?  I am around, ahem, 1mph better if it is really a TD.  If a reedy, at 68, then that is very good. (I do have some nitro, I could mix up some 80%.  I had a record of 82 mph with monoline.  The plane on my avatar is still untouched since 1975 I don't want to bust it on the grass)

aspeed wrote:A paved circle would be so nice. It used to be a free for all at shopping centres on Sundays for the marching bands,  1/8th nitro racers and control line guys.  Now everything is open Sundays.  Even the factory parking lots are full now with the continental shift work and weekend shifts. Some shopping centres have gone bankrupt and are empty in the US, Toledo comes to mind where there is a good 1/8th track. Around here real estate is pretty hot so there is nothing vacant except Detroit which is another story altogether. I'll take off from the plywood again and crash in the grass.  My lovely assistant might not be comfortable hand launching.

Hey Alan, Your plywood take-off/taxi-way over a grass-field is A-OK.. and if there's a mishap; yields far less carnage than a paved-surface.

That said; I checked-out a very local-to-me/recently-defunct elementary school-grounds this afternoon; the one that I mentioned yesterday. It couldn't be a more perfect site for C/L flying. The entry-road winds-down into a secluded/wooded-area where the school is located. The land/site was originally donated to the town of N. Smithfield, RI in 1957 by a "Harry Hallowell".. and had been utilized for 62 years.. up-until this past Spring/2019.

There are no "groomed" areas where sports-activity might be expected to commence.. but there is a large grass field... and also what looks to be a large hard-packed "clay" surface adjacent, which may have been a baseball-diamond at one time.. but no hard-evidence of that. If that's not enough.. there's a large smooth-paved (asphalt) lot with ample-space for flying larger C/L ships. The utility wires are well out of the way.. and lead-in from a separate fire-road.

I "can" tell ya'll.. that I was psyched BIG-TIME.. to discover this site; only a mile or two from our house. There will be ZERO issues with running IC model-engines "open-face". This place is in the woods...  

Other than the DEtroit option, I am 4 hours from a paved runway. I had thought of even buying an acre or so an paving it.I'm about $100,000 short. Pavement is pretty expensive too. I thought of this option. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=JPjMMH7QzKU

aspeed wrote:Other than the DEtroit option, I am 4 hours from a paved runway.  I had thought of even buying an acre or so an paving it.I'm about $100,000 short. Pavement is pretty expensive too. I thought of this option.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=JPjMMH7QzKU

The soil-cement option in the vid looks very interesting Alan. I'll admit that I thoroughly enjoy a scale-like R.O.G. take-off of a model-airplane.

My wife "Lynne" and I live in the Northern Rhode Island sub-urban town of N. Smithfield. There's a LOT of available farm-land here. It's "Country-Living".. just minutes from the busy cities of Boston and Worcester, (MA) and Providence (RI).

Your video says reed speed, but you say it is a TD later? I am around, ahem, 1mph better if it is really a TD. If a reedy, at 68, then that is very good. (I do have some nitro, I could mix up some 80%. I had a record of 82 mph with monoline. The plane on my avatar is still untouched since 1975 I don't want to bust it on the grass) wrote:

*** It was TD I just checked the rpms and from what i got I guess i need to pU the game st 13-15 K i got reedies that do better ?! It's mounted and ready sep for a fuel tank , i need to tach that thing again ! HUMM , I am hoping to get my son to put it in the air , my hip want take a lot more falling down LOL Here is a link ta the photos of entres https://www.coxengineforum.com/t8828-reed-speed-2016-qualifying-photos?highlight=reed+speed

Is the nose glued back on yet? What happened with the balloon tank? I bought a package of them to try but never tested them. Did you use a mesh bag to mount the back of it, or put it in a tube? I have no one to launch my planes. The RC guys at the club kind of want their planes to go, and I am a bit in the way. If I go when it is not busy, then the wife has to watch the bread rise or dig holes in the garden. My stooge was a failure, the wheel slides and the plane points right at my head screaming away. I have a video of it but it would be too embarrassing to show in public. Maybe my entry would have been better with the Conquest on the combat plane. Maybe next time. I want to run it again now that I got a cheap spare. Just have to machine up a C/L venturi and I guess a muffler is required at my field:-(

aspeed wrote:Is the nose glued back on yet?  What happened with the balloon tank?  I bought a package of them to try but never tested them. Did you use a mesh bag to mount the back of it, or put it in a tube?  I have no one to launch my planes. The RC guys at the club kind of want their planes to go, and I am a bit in the way.  If I go when it is not busy, then the wife has to watch the bread rise or dig holes in the garden.  My stooge was a failure, the wheel slides and the plane points right at my head screaming away.  I have a video of it but it would be too embarrassing to show in public.  Maybe my entry would have been better with the Conquest on the combat plane. Maybe next time.  I want to run it again now that I got a cheap spare.  Just have to machine up a C/L venturi and I guess a muffler is required at my field:-(

Yea nose back on , Ballon i didnt have time to play with it was for the pic. LOL wanted to run pressure but i just have not got the feel of getting it to keep running . I am very happy to say i fly in my field out back , ck out Rusty's stooge simple and IF you have the power it will work Great !! https://www.coxengineforum.com/t2374-rustys-stooge?highlight=my+stooge

Ya Rusty's looks pretty simple.  I was just thinking today that I should just make one up at least for the F2D planes.  I have one with an AP .15 that I want to get going with a hard tank, I hate bladders too. Just not quick enough to get at the clamp without a helper.  I have one with a Fora but don't always want to go fast.  I think the AP should have enough power if the stooge is angled up a bit. The mouse racer might not work with that style.  It is about finished for this TD motor and tank mount.  It shakes too much and the fuel foams up when leaned out, and quits in about 10 seconds which keeps the speed down.  It may hang up for another 30 years.  I thought it would be good to clamp the stooge on the RC table that is a the field already, not so much stuff in the van to slide around.  The control line field has stooges there all the time  Dresden Beanfield.  I have seen the Foras screaming away and the plane backing out.  Needs a brick maybe.  Sorry for getting off topic, I am bad/good for that.

Foaming , i have not had that problem but from what i hear a squirt of something like Armor All in the fuel will make it stop foaming  , and some padding between the tank and fuse . I am sure you know this already but we do tend to forget I used a hard wedge tank with the TD run and had no problem with the run ... To bee honest that is the fastest i have ever flown and really don't care to do it again !!!! My field will fly at most right now 52' lines , but with some trimming of trees /sappiling i would feel much better got an old pic here somewhere ..   Wow that is ole

This one is a tank mount. It bolts right on to the babe bee holes. It vibrates a lot, I thought it was an .049 cylinder, but it is an .051. They shake more because of the piston weight. I should try an .049 motor really. It would likely be much faster because I could lean it out. I put a Norvel on already. I probably did the Armourall in the fuel. Probably not worth the effort. Things are going to heat up again next week.

I feel the wedge tank is a extremely poor design for use in speed. While Eric may have been satisfied, it really is problematic. They're very problematic on a profile due to the width of the tank making it a bad choice to begin with. The TD has a large venturi which automatically places it in the struggling category. When you couple the engine to a tank which has it's pickup so far outboard, your really starving it which is why most suggest the TD suffers running on suction. The closer you can place the fuel pickup to the centerline of engine, the better the TD works on suction. Therefore, a longer narrower tank is the tank one should use. My TD is using a tank which I pinched the entire side from front to rear by 3/8" of a inch.

When using a wedge tank, on launch the engine on the ground sounds good. The prop tries to unload and that's when the TD begins struggling. The engine goes lean due to fuel starvation and then it picks up again. However, it's not uncommon to surge because the design of this tank ( height especially) pins the fuel load to the side wall of the tank. This can happen repeatedly throughout the flight because when the speed drops, centrifugal force lowers, the plane gets fuel, it speeds up until it starves for fuel and then it drops off again over and over until the tank is depleted.

I have unsoldered the pickup and pulled it out as much as a 1/4" from the rear of the tank which somewhat solved the problem. Unfortunately, it doesn't solve the problem throughout the entire flight. It will run fairly well to about mid tank and the above starts happening. Sinking the tank into the fuse can offer assistance but that's not always practical in most models. Launching richer can also curve this to a degree but that's counterproductive to what were trying to do because you can't lean the engine out for good performance.

Offering some engine offset which can offer a slight advantage as it places the needle valve body a little more proud outboard. One though could just shim the entire engine outboard by adding additional doubler material or placing aluminum shim stock under the beams. Even as much as 1/8" can be critical to assisting a good run.

Even Brad noted the rpm's of my engine dropping off a bit. I can only think it was due to the fact that I fill my tanks and cap them off with trans fluid when sitting in storage. I think it just ingested a bit and really wasn't digging it. I ran the plane this past Sunday one time and that's all I had in me due to the heat.

How much fuel do you need to complete lets say 15 laps so you have buffer fuel to get in
your groove and fuel to avoid lag trying to get a solid 10 laps of steady rpm withing the run?
10cc for a screaming TD .049?

What about a micro size tank with a clunk so the clunk moves with the fuel staying wet.

Brad if i am not mistaken i used a 3/4 oz. wedge tank with the TD .049 , were talking a 2 min run ?

My tank was used up before I set the needle with the 4 1/4" prop. It was way too rich at the start. If you open up the carb and run rich it will be gone in no time. The tank looks about the size of a Golden Bee so 3/4 oz I guess. It was about right for the flight after I got the setting. Our speed planes with the bladder I seem to remember 15cc on the syringe. 3 marks. A Fora would drink up the fuel at twice the rate I think.The carb is almost 1/4" diameter.

5cc is the smaller reed tank
8cc is the larger reed tank
These above give you short runs with speed props.

1oz is 30cc
3/4oz is 20cc
1/2oz is 15cc
1/3rd oz 10cc  
1/4oz is 7.5cc  

Sounds like 1/2oz would be the way to go for most engines.
Those TD's munch on fuel but a hot reed engine can too.

Last night I built a new tank it holds 16cc that is twice the capacity of
the 8cc Cox reed tank. The tank is listed as a 15cc tank I checked / it held
16.2cc with an air void at the top to compensate for the room the pluming
takes up. Do you think a moving clunk would improve fuel flow throughout
the run? At this time the smallest clunk tank you can buy is a 1oz which is
too heavy and bulky for 1/2A speed planes.

Listed as 15cc


1cc of water equals 1g of weight:


Listed as 10cc / holds 12cc


 

Brad, I have used plastic clunks for stunt. While they're generally leak free, they're a pain in the rear to get set up. The clunks tend to rise up and out of the fuel. I contribute this to centrifugal forces pushes it into the sidewall. The shape of the clunk is also incorrect. They generally need to be filed at a fairly steep angle to get the clunk into the corner making the pickup hole in the center of the tank closer to the sidewall.This now makes the clunk lighter. For speed you want a steady run which typically necessitates the need for uniflow. The height of the tank that you show could also prove to be a problem. For example, a good built speed tank would probably be no taller than a 1/2"-5/8" in height, and about the same in depth. The length though would be about 2" long or more. This is because the weight of the fuel inside the tank is going to be greater earlier in the run making it rich. This is less likely to be an issue with a longer narrower tank. But, the uniflow to some degree could compensate for some of these issues. The bottom line is to try it and see. Most don't even recognize issues that are issues. For me though, I want the most reliable and steady run I can achieve.

Yes could add a 3rd line for a uniflow system the clunk shape is shown in this pic with as steep of
an angle within the dimensions of the modified part used to shape into a clunk. A second line running to
the clunk would not allow much movement and deem this setup useless for acro. The location of the tank
sitting next to the engine is for size reference nothing more. The tank itself is 2" long and .8" high. I do have
a 1/2" dia. tank on tap to try. This is small I have never seen any other functioning clunk tanks under 1oz.

Here is my typical speed tank that works well with a remote Kirnkraft needle.

. Height is not as important as width. A clunk is not needed as they should not really ever be upside down. The FAI speed lanes are adjustable inboard and outboard to fine tune how rich they need to be in the air. Pipes need to be very rich, too rich to run on the ground. This is a 1/2A profile proto and no pipe is allowed.

Alan, your tank is what I have mentioned on numerous occasions which is a coffin style tank. For some reason since I upgraded my computer my camera is no longer recognized . This has me typing forever which probably sounds like a broken record to most. I have never witnessed any other tank feed as well for speed as this type aside from using bladder. My TD video flight has that design tank. I have seen others strap a bladder to the side of planes essentially profiles. This in my opinion is a very poor idea. It's nothing but drag.I have some formula .40 ships that I fly now and then. A fellow club member/speed flyer Bob Wilke set me straight on what one needs to do to go fast. Between my line clips, needle valve hanging out, wheel attachments, hold down bolts etc, I discovered I had a hidden 13 mph in my plane.

13 mph is pretty good. This plane here has the monoline buttons on the bellcrank so there are no clips, and I trimmed the needle valve a bit. You are from Pennsylvania? Were you at Brodak's last meet? We ran the really small latex tubing with a knot and put it in an aluminum cigar tube, or a suitable size syringe and screwed it into the side of the fuselage. They give an even run, but I hate them anyway.

Allan, I haven't attended Brodak's since 2015. I started to attend in 2007. My club the Philly Fliers make a decent turnout to Brodak's. The first few my son and I were flying numerous events. This became more of a chore than fun. My favorite events there were combat and the racing events. Phil Cartier and Roy Glen run combat at Brodak's whom are both personal friends of mine. I live about 5.5 hours from Brodak's. Phil is 2.5 hours from me, therefore Brodak's isn't too far for him. Combat used to be held on Friday turning into Saturday if needed. For whatever reason, they moved it to mid week which for me is difficult to do. I used to leave work on Thursday ,  drive there, fly combat and come home on Sat evening. I happened to notice that you mentioned the Beanfield. I know Paul Smith and Brad La Pointe both fly there. I would imagine you know these fellows? A few pics of my plane in the video, this was built by me a few years back

Plane looks good. I flew Paul Smith's Foxberg (LA berg) and Clown racer there. I was pretty tuckered out especially after the final clown race with 4 up. I am getting pretty old. It was fun though whether I liked it or not, and I wasn't sore like usual for the next week.

Here we go! I will try to post my official attempt here, but I will probably have to stick it to YouTube, so that it may be viewed.
Down to the wire, huh?
Also, the Purple Engine had a catastrophic failure during one attempt, and a different engine was installed. It is the one that I won in the Endurance Contest, of a few years ago. IT RAN GREAT!